[CCWG-ACCT] Notes, Recordings, Transcript links for Intensive Meeting Day 2 Session 3 - 24 April

Brenda Brewer brenda.brewer at icann.org
Mon Apr 27 19:28:17 UTC 2015

Dear All, 


The notes, recordings and transcripts for the Intensive Meeting Day 2 Session 3 - 24 April  will be
available here: https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Day+2+-+Session+3


A copy of the notes from this session may be found below. 



Kind regards,



Action Items

Action: Becky to confirm with ccNSO if this non-inclusion in the IRP, is acceptable.
Action: update text redelegation and revocation issues should not be subject to the IRP, pending
ccNSO policy. And considering GAC contributions.
Action: to ensure the IRP txt is aligned as above.
Action: Chairs will review the transcript and put a proposal to the group, and double check with the
Action: Alan to provide a sentence about the reviewing past reviews (WHOIS etc)
Action: Should take on the action item that CWG will 
Action: Staff+ Steve Del Bianco to make sure the text in the reviews tables lines up


Rollcall:  all participants in the AC room


1) Recap of session 2

Preserving ICANN commitment from the AoC and through the AoC reviews, but not covered the bylaws
changes suggested by the stress tests. 

2)  Outstanding stress tests - Stress tests where the contingency does not appear to be fully

Stress test 21.  Govt official demands a reassignment of a ccTLD.  Currently no mitigation on this

No answer, but to see if a revocation of a reassignment that did not follow procedure: RFC, FOI and
GAC principles were considered.  CWG has suggest that ccNSO will soon be working on policy.  The
test articulates the issues, but no solution/bylaws proposal or mechanism emerging. 

CWG request that CCWG should note define mechanisms, ccNSO addressing this.  Unless perhaps out
appeals mechanisms apply.  

ccNSO has been working with GAC on transfer and revocation, a framework of interpretation (FOI)
worked on.  The FOI references an appeals mechanism, but the ccNSO is still working on the appeals
mechanisms, and as ongoing work the ccNSO is not will to sign up for any particular appeals process.
And not all ccTLD managers are subject to 1591 as their TLD assigned before it was issues and before
the GAC principles of 2006 2005. 

Could the local parties use the IRP mechanisms?  Or in line with the CWG input should we say this
should not happen in the IRP. 
The view of the ccNSO is until ccNSO policy is developed on this the IRP is not applicable to the
relegation process. 

Suggestion that we include language to say these issues should not be subject to the IRP, pending
ccNSO policy. 

Action: Becky to confirm with ccNSO if this non-inclusion in the IRP, is acceptable.

Keep current text, this mechanism could be available if compatible with the Policy development
process of the ccNSO

This section was frozen before the CWG request, we will be updating this in the next few days.  CWG
explicit not to address pending ccNSO policy. 

Action:  update text redelegation and revocation issues should not be subject to the IRP, pending
ccNSO policy. And considering GAC contributions. 

Action to ensure the IRP txt is aligned as above.

3)  Second reading of outstanding issues for public comment report 

NomCom to recall board members or a new committee and community.

Don't believe NomCom will be interested in or able to remove people appointed by a previous NomCom.
And don's want to put a NomCom in the position of taking instruction from the SO/AC ash this affects
the independence of the NomCom.

pre-sign an letter to resign under certain conditions, and conditions might be a super-majority of
the SO/AC to express dissatisfaction with their service.  This could remove one or more. 

Suggestion for the recall NomCom be created.  

This NomCom takes the SO/AC appeal and no complication over the person's appointment.  The only
issue is the complaint.  A simple matter

Disagree that the pre-signed letter is enough to remove a director, as opposed to being used to
initiate a process.  It may tend to be a reaction to a situation going on and does not involve  a
check and balance.

Comment: use the current NomCom, does not see the difference in the board process. 

Comment: Removal for cause may cause appeals and other processes.  A group formed ad Hoc may be hard
to fit in the member/designator models. 

(legal)  The resignation letter.  Not meant to usurp and checks and balance.  It's the end of the
process in an entire board recall situation.  A contractual obligation for the director to step down
from the board if the sending organization requested. 

Current NomCom can be used.  The SO/AC may also have a changing membership.  This is the same for
the NomCom

In favor of Avri's proposal to create a new structure of a recall NomCom as in the draft proposal. 

Many seem in favor of not putting the current NomCom on the spot.  And this suggests the recall
NomCom mechanisms should be favored. The conditional pre-signed resignation, also useful as the
NomCom would not have a voting right in the community mechanism.  

The recall NomCom originally written for individual director recall.  But not the whole board, and
that the NomCom appointees to the board could stand or fall with the rest of the board by whatever
mechanism is adopted for that.

If the recall NomCom constituted separately from the NomCom then lawyers have suggested this may not
be possible as they are not the appointing body.  
[Possible Action for legal sub-team to consult with the lawyers TBC]

Seem that the recall mechanism would be outside the community.  Have often spoken as the threat of
removal as a means of influence what a Board member might do.  

Comment.  Discomfort with the notion of removing a Board member.  They are there for 3 years,
community does not see al their work.  

On the table: 
Let the community do it, with some push.
The recall NomCom, which can only take place with a trigger from the SO/AC community.  
Would be under the NomCom bylaws, and if a member model the NomCom would be an unincorporated
association. and the recall NomCom would come under the NomCom's procedures. 
Or use the existing NomCom, but hopefully keeping the petitioning mechanisms. 

(legal) The power to remove is a reason for having a member of designator model, with reason or no
reason.  And hearing it would be difficult for the NomCom to do this is problematic.  But the
proposal is viable.  Could have two committee under the unincorporated association entity and one of
those could appoint and one recall.  For individual directors.  And these directors could still file
a pre-resignation letter for their removal, or absolutely needed for the removal of the whole Board.

Is the Avri option what Josh described?  It is his the model could be implemented if we go with a
member designator model and the NomCom becomes a unincorporated association. 

Going forward if the NomCom is to put someone on the board it does need to be at least a designator,
an unincorporated association.  And that entity can have two committees.  The process from the view
of counsel is as described. 

A problem is that the new committee is constituted in the same numbers as the NomCom, so very
different from the community mechanism. If constituted same as the community mechanism could go
along with this. 

Note, the process is to decide which option we put to the community.  

Some do not have enough information to make the decision now, and objection to the use of a poll.

Would be advisable to have the same organization principles for the group that recalls as the one
that appoints. 

If member or designators, then the groups appointing to the board must be unincorporated
association.  The NomCom would need to take on the required structure. Then the question is should
the same group of people who appoint be different from those who remove. 

Then SO/AC community reps would bring in their input in the petition. 

Suggestion for a legal paper to explain the options. 

Action.  Chairs will review the transcript and put a proposal to the group, and double check with
the lawyers. 

Board recall powers 
Reference proposal.  5 for SO and AC of ALAC and GAC, and 2 for RSAC and SSAC brings a total of 29
people.  75% is 22 of 29.  80% 4/5, is 24 votes of 29.  85% is 25 votes of 29. 

Petition is 3 SO/AC.

If we want to block a single group from blocking a proposal then a 85% trigger is not workable.
Assuming that the will be able to split vote, then 80% is appropriate, 75% if a block vote.  The
dynamics of the ICANN community will make reaching such a high threshold as 75% will be difficult.  

The group is leaning to individual vote. Removal of the whole board, and need stability.  
80% means if a single group blocks then requires unanimity from the rest and that is too high.
Abstention are not counting.
The options are 75% and 80% with 75% preferred as the reference option. 

The removal NomCom would have a different structure. 

The pre-resignation letter essential, to ensure the recall process has effect. If the 75% threshold
is met then expectation is that all directors would resign.

Diversity (participation and inclusion) as an issue for WS2.
This proposal is consistent with Jan Scholte's advice received before the meetings. 
Is included in the core values work?

Seeking what does it mean to be transparent by default?  How do we record what is classified and be
aware of when something is classified.  And as has come up in ATRT, just because something has
classified at the time, does it mean to be so in 5 years. It is almost default that every inquiry
requires a DIDP

Not seen any objection to these two items 

Also suggest looking at ICANN's whistleblower program in WS2.  

In WS1 the 4 AoC reviews we are suggesting bringing over they will have better access than before to
information needed to use during a review.  

A package of three items to be added to WS2

Transparency and 
Whistleblower policy

Noting we will ask the community for any additional issues during public comment

Package accepted.

AoC Section 8 

Identified that 8b is already reflected in the ICANN bylaws through article 18 offices.  And members
and designators could block any changes.  

Question is whether we want to move article 18 to fundamental.

Comment: to reflect that here are 2 opinions in the group that it should either be kept in the
bylaws or as fundamental.

Does it cause concern for anyone to replace principles by headquarters. 

Suggestion to seek advice from the lawyers on actual language.  

The bylaws are more specific in CA/Los Angeles, and bylaws only refer to the United States.
Registered offices are often in different states from headquarters. The articles capture that it is
a CA corporation, so the package captures the whole. 

Pedro: The CCWG is considering whether bylaws Article 18 Section 1 should keep its current status or
be among the bylaws sections listed as "Fundamental Bylaws". In the latter case, any changes to it
would require positive approval by Members/Designators. 

Suggestion that to allow flexibility and a lower threshold, if it is to be a fundamental bylaw or

Both options will be in there.

Reviews in the bylaws and AoC

Highlight difference of today and being proposed.  

proposed: assessing the role and effectiveness of the GAC in its interaction with the board.

in the AoC, item f.  Implementation of recommendation. The review team may terminate reviews and
create new reviews. 

Timing.  ART is every 3 years.  Suggest no less frequently than every 5 years, which would allow us
to do this more frequently. 

5 years:  The current implementation is from the receipt of report, so adding an additional year. 

The itemized points are all mandatory, and believed others out of scope. Need to take care to allow

Review other review teams.  Clear in ATRT2, first to review other review teams, 1 lack expertise, 2.
exponentially increasing work. suggested the review be done by the successor review. 

'timing".  to make a point about the time the board received it. 
unclear on itemized issues
(f) May be repeated in each review or in the chapeau

Each ATRT must review the previous ATRT.  

Action Alan to provide a sentence about the reviewing past reviews (WHOIS etc)

comment:  the general principles of what we are trying to archive is actually captured in section of
11 of the ATRT2 report.

If there is a pressing need for a more frequent review then the proposal gives that flexibility.

Review effectiveness of WHOIS (directory services - is included)
Privacy concerns added with the OECD principles, and this is new
AoC every three years, and left at three years (expecting change wrt directory services)

Evaluation of the new gTLD.  Change of languages as written pre new gTLD program. Competition and
consumer trust and choice are reflected in the core values.

Subsequent rounds should not be opened until the review of previous review implemented. 

Action: Should take on the action item that CWG will recommend an IANA performance review will be
conducted as CWG requirements, as a placeholder.  

Proceed with language as suggested? 

Action: Staff+ Steve Del Bianco to make sure the text in the reviews tables lines up

Fulfilling CWG requirements 

Ability of community to veto the budget.  Feasible, but more enforceable under the member model.

Ability to set up an IANA function review.  And that is be submitted as a fundamental bylaw

Suggested that the CWG would be placed in the same section as the other reviews.  Currently reviews
are not Fundamental Bylaws. 

The ability to trigger ad hoc [special] reviews.  

The power to convene a review is driven by the community. And there is room for this special out of
cycle review.

ccTLD revocation issue covered. 

The IANA functions review in the CWG only covers naming functions, but it might evolve within the

Next Steps

Document update with the feedback received.  Update by the rapporteurs, staff and co-chairs. 

Final document for review and approval by the CCWG 

Final document May 1st, for final adjustments by the group, with a goal to publish on May 4th.  And
public comment for 30 days, comment period agreed by the group.  The final review should not be for
substantial change: editorial and inconsistencies.

First check of the document on Tuesday's regular call, (April 28) and if needed hold an additional
call on Thursday (April 30). 

Is this acceptable? 

Will affect the CCWG timeline. The public comment start was April 28, moving to May 4.  

Public comment moved by a few days.  Staff complies a review tool for the community to review.

Public comment 30 or 28 days?  
30 days, green tick please
Objections to keeping to 30 days red cross
Agreement to open public comment for 30days.

The advisors will also be given opportunity to review the document. 

We will review the CWG stress test.

Kavouss: profound thanks to the co-chairs, the rapporteurs, working group chairs. 

Thanks to colleagues for you participation and support, I have learnt a lot.  Thanks staff.  And
congratulations to ICANN.  Thank you to you all.  

co-chairs:  Thanks to staff, rapporteurs, lawyers and thanks to the whole group. 



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