[CCWG-ACCT] [CCWG-Advisors] question regarding Global Public Interest

william currie willie.currie at gmail.com
Sun Dec 27 17:49:57 UTC 2015


This is some kind of a joke from the Board, right?

No one ever tries to define the public interest. It is what it is.

Willie

On Sunday, December 27, 2015, Nathalie Coupet via
Accountability-Cross-Community <accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
wrote:

> +1 Kavouss
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 27, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
> * Dear Milton,*
> *I fully and wholeheartzedly Agree and support you *
> I tries to put together something to show that is is absolutely
> difficulté ,if not impossible to have anagreed definition for  Global
> Public Interest.
> From the text appears below you will note the difficulties and
> impossibilities.
> I DO NOT UNDERSTAND INSISTANCE OF SOME PEOPLE PUSHING TO HAVE A DEFINITION
> , in particular, believing that the legal adviser s are miracle makers
> WE MUST ABBANDONE TAKING THAT PATH . This issue should be included in the
> agenda of the 05 January call.
> Legal Adviser are kindly requested to hold on the action on this issue
> until the matter is discussed and agreed upon by CCWG
> pLEASE FIND BELOW SOME WORDS IN THIS REGARD INDICATING THE DIFFICULTIES TO
> TAKE SUCH APPROACH ( ATTEMPTING TO DEFINE GPI)
> See Below
>
> *Global Public Interest composed of three words ; Global, Public and
> Interest, each of which has some meaning and application in an discrete
> fashion  as follows:  *
>
> *Some available definition of Global *
>
>    1.
>
>    Spherical <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spherical>
>    : of, relating to, or involving the entire sphere
>
>
>    1. Worldwide <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worldwide>
>    :of, relating to, or involving the entire world :
>    2. Universal <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/universal>
>    :of, relating to, or applying to a whole universe:
>
> *Some available Definition of Public *
>
>    1. exposed to general view :
>    2. of, relating to, or affecting all the people or the whole area of a
>    nation or state ; *public law*
>    3. of or relating to a government ,  of, relating to, or being in the
>    service of the community or nation
>    4. of or relating to people in general
>    5. of or relating to business or community interests as opposed to
>    private affairs
>    6. devoted to the general or national welfare
>    7. accessible to or shared by all members of the community
>    8. capitalized in shares that can be freely traded on the open market
>    9. supported by public funds and private contributions rather than by
>    income from commercials (*public radio>* *<public television)*
>
>
>
> *Examples of public*
>
>    1. *Public* outrage over the scandal eventually forced him to resign.
>    2. The ads are intended to increase *public* awareness of the risks of
>    smoking.
>    3. She was elected to a *public* office.
>    4. He was in Congress for many years but he recently retired from
>    *public* life.
>    5. They decided on a nearby restaurant as a convenient *public* place
>    to meet.
>    6. The government has allowed *public* access to the documents.
>    7. The city council is holding a *public* meeting.
>    8. This will be her first *public* performance in five years.
>    9. Her trial will be *public*.
>
>
>
> *Use of term “Public”*
>
> *As a noun, the whole body politic, or the aggregate of the citizens of a
> state, nation, or municipality. The community at large, without reference
> to the geographical limits of any corporation like a city, town, or county;
> the people.*
>
> *As an adjective, open to all; notorious. Open to common use. Belonging to
> the people at large; relating to or affecting the whole people of a state,
> nation, or community; not limited or restricted to any particular class of
> the community.*
>
> *Further use of term “public”*
>
>    1.
>
>    as a noun
>
> The people of the nation, state, county, district or municipality, which
> the government serves.
>
>    1.
>
>    as an adjective
>
> Referring to any agency, interest, property, or activity which is under
> the authority of the government or which belongs to the people. This
> distinguishes public from private interests as with public and private
> schools, public and private utilities, public and private hospitals, public
> and private lands, and public and private roads.
>
> *Some available definition  of Interest:*
>
> A feeling of wanting to learn more about something or to be involved in
> something
>
> A quality that attracts your attention and makes you want to learn more
> about something or to be involved in something
>
> Something (such as a hobby) that a person enjoys learning about or doing
> Public Interest
>
> One of the simple definitions of Public interest could be:
>
> Anything affecting the rights, health, or finances of the public at large.
>
> Public interest is a common concern among citizens in the management and
> affairs of local, state, andnational government. It does not mean mere
> curiosity but is a broad term that refers to the body politic and the
> public weal. Apublic utility is regulated in the public interest because
> private individuals rely on such a company for vital service
>
> *Can we define Public Interest in a broader/ general term?*
>
> From a broad perspective, it is not appropriate to believe that a detailed
> general definition would serve a useful purpose: individual circumstances
> are too variable and such a definition would inevitably result in
> unintended and/or unanticipated or unexpected consequences. It should be
> emphasize that when justifying an action as being in the public interest
>
> Using such a framework will allow those advocating an action in the public
> interest to understand what they mean, and, if explained, will allow those
> assessing the action or proposal to determine whether they can support the
> measure as being in the public interest.
>
> Another simple definition of public interest could be :
>
> Welfare the general public (in contrast to the selfish interest of a
> person, group or firm) in which the whole society has a stake and which
> warrants recognition, promotion and protection by the government and its
> agencies. Despite the vagueness of the term, public interest is claimed
> generally by governments in matters state secrecy and confidentiality. It
> is approximated by comparing expected gains and potential costs or losses
> associated with a decision, policy, program or project
>
> in acting in public interest,, each circumstance needs to be assessed
> based on criteria such as the relevant public, wants, and constraints. The
> key to assessing any public interest decision is transparency of the
> decision-making process, including balancing competing interests.
>
> The term has grown working toward a multitude of objectives, including
> civil rights, civil liberties, women’s rights, consumer rights,
> environmental protection, and so on. Nevertheless, a common denominator for
> public interest remains the ethic of “fighting for the little guy”—that is,
> representing the underrepresented and vulnerable segments of society.
>
> International law is one of the fastest growing legal fields. The types of
> public service work and practice settings vary widely. The U.S. Government
> hires attorneys to work on international issues in many of its agencies,
> including the Department of State, the Department of Commerce and the
> Environmental Protection Agency, to name just a few. Hundreds of lawyers
> also work at the United Nations, the World Bank, the Organization of
> American States, international tribunals, the International Criminal Court
> and other intergovernmental organizations. Finally, there are thousands of
> non-governmental organizations throughout the world that focus on
> international issues, including but not limited to, development, human
> rights, the environment law, energy, trade, arms control, and transitional
> justice.
>
> Another definition of Public Interest is :
>
> 1. The welfare or well-being of the general public; commonwealth.
>
> 2. Appeal or relevance to the general populace: a news story of public
> interest."[ <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_interest#cite_note-1>
>
> Public interest must be assessed impartially and, therefore, the public
> interest could be defined as the "*ex ante*
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_ante> welfare of the representative
> individual.", by assuming that there is an equal chance for one to be
> anyone in society and, thus, could benefit or suffer from a change, the
> public interest is by definition enhanced whenever that change is preferred
> to the status quo *ex ante*. This approach is "*ex ante*", in the sense
> that the change is not evaluated after the fact but assessed before the
> fact without knowing whether one would actually benefit or suffer from it.
>
>
> Now to have a general understanding of Global Public Interest ,one needs
> to put a combination of the above simplified terms and definition
> We then immediately find that it is " Mission Impobile"
> Kavouss
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-12-26 9:40 GMT+01:00 Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com');>>:
>
>> Dear All,
>> I also fully agree with Milton.
>> If we remember, at the beginning of our work we attempted to find a
>> possible description , and not definition as there would  be no
>> Universally agreed definition for GPI, we concluded that we better not to
>> follow that path.
>> It is waste of time to re-start such useless work again thus question to
>> lawyer MUST BE WITHDRAWN. If , and only if , the Lawyers find some thing ,
>> that does not mean that we have to accept that just because it comes from
>> lawyers.
>> The GPI is one of the most complex and multidimensional as well as cross
>> cutting cultural issue that will take us no where.
>> The board MUST provide the basis under which it reject a given Rec. or
>> part if the Rec. since we the CCWG do not hsve and certainly will not have
>> an agreed definition for GPI.
>> The CCWG must clearly mentions to ICANN Board that have serious concerns
>> to accept rejection of any Rec. or part of  a Rec. on the ground of being
>> in contradiction of GPI for which there is no definition.
>> We SHALL NOT waste it time to define that nor accept any rejection by the
>> Board on the ground of non- existence definition.
>> We should all stop any imposition of any action from any source
>> Kavouss
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 26 Dec 2015, at 07:52, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Milton (and Alan).
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Friday, December 25, 2015, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca');>> wrote:
>>
>>> I find myself agreeing completely with Milton.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>> --
>>> Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.
>>>
>>> On December 25, 2015 8:46:35 PM EST, "Mueller, Milton L" <
>>> milton at gatech.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> MM: Thomas and all:
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate your pushback on the board’s comments, but I think it is
>>>> not helpful for the discussion to center on “definition of the global
>>>> public interest.”
>>>>
>>>> There is no definition, and even if we come up with some mutually
>>>> acceptable verbal construction of what is in “the global public interest”
>>>> there never will be easy agreement on how that definition is applied to
>>>> any particular issue we have.
>>>>
>>>> For example, we may all agree that it is in the GPI for ICANN to be
>>>> transparent, but still might disagree on finding the appropriate trade off
>>>> between inspection rights and administrative burdens.
>>>>
>>>> Let’s just accept the fact that the board has an interest in protecting
>>>> the corporation and will argue from that perspective, and the rest of us
>>>> have an interest in making the board accountable to the community and will
>>>> assess issues from that perspective.
>>>>
>>>> When (or if – because it has not formally done so yet) the board votes
>>>> that a particular recommendation is not in the GPI, let’s just interpret
>>>> that as meaning the board doesn’t like it and won’t voluntarily go along
>>>> with it. Then we have to decide whether to ignore that challenge and press
>>>> ahead, or not.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing in gained in that interaction by coming up with a verbal
>>>> definition of GPI. But a lot of time could be wasted in the attempt.
>>>>
>>>> --MM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have asked the Board to provide information on what definition of
>>>> the Global Public Interest it has used and what the rationale for their
>>>> current assessment of our recommendations is. The answer to that question
>>>> is still pending.
>>>>
>>>> However, we are reaching out to you now as we want to understand better
>>>> the impact of Global Public Interest as we continue to work on our final
>>>> recommendations. Our plan is to offer explanations in our final report
>>>> where we speak to the Global Public Interest and why we are of the opinion
>>>> that our recommendations in their final form are in the Global Public
>>>> Interest.
>>>>
>>>> We would therefore appreciate your input at your earliest convenience on
>>>>
>>>> 1.      suggested definition(s) of the Global Public Interest that our
>>>> group could use;
>>>>
>>>> 2. which of the recommendations in our 3rd report, if any, give raise
>>>> Global Public Interest concerns according to your assessment; and
>>>>
>>>> 3. how you suggest we can resolve the Global Public Interest issues,
>>>> which are identified.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much,  kind regards and a great holiday season,
>>>> Mathieu Weill, Léon Sanchez, Thomas Rickert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thomas Rickert
>>>>
>>>> *Rechtsanwalt*
>>>>
>>>> tel: +49.228.74 898.0
>>>> fax: +49.228.74 898.66
>>>> email: thomas at rickert.net
>>>> web: rickert.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: Image removed by sender. image]
>>>>
>>>> RICKERT Rechtsanwaltsgesellschaft m.b.H. (i.e. law firm)
>>>> Kaiserplatz 7 - 9, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>>> HRB 9262, AG Bonn - GF/CEO: Thomas Rickert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> CCWG-Advisors at icann.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
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