[CCWG-ACCT] Definitions and the tussle (was Re: Fwd: [CCWG-Advisors] question regarding Global Public Interest)

Mon Dec 28 22:20:43 UTC 2015

Actually, Eric, it would probably be better if you stuck to technical matters and didn’t pretend that technical discussions solve the general case … they don’t and it is just a false conceit to think that they do.  

More to the point, there is little value in insulting Mr. Aratesh and your descent into ad hominem belittling does your position no real service.

Paul

Paul Rosenzweig

 <mailto:paul.rosenzweigesq at redbranchconsulting.com> paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com 

O: +1 (202) 547-0660

M: +1 (202) 329-9650

VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739

Skype: paul.rosenzweig1066

 <http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=9> Link to my PGP Key

 <http://www.rsaconference.com/events/us16?utm_source=signature&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=speakers-us2016> 

From: Eric Brunner-Williams [mailto:ebw at abenaki.wabanaki.net] 
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 4:58 PM
To: Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>
Cc: accountability-cross-community at icann.org
Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definitions and the tussle (was Re: Fwd: [CCWG-Advisors] question regarding Global Public Interest)

Mr. Arasteh,

Your comment is noted. If you think you would benefit by having someone explain the issues to you in Farsi this can be arranged. The .ir staff are quite competent and more likely than I to improve your understanding of this, and related, issues.

Eric Brunner-Williams
Eugene, Oregon

On 12/28/15 1:43 PM, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:

Dear All,

The argument given through an example of distribution of the addresses is totally irelevant .

Does the public interests meant that one country has many times addresses as a continent?
Let us be logical

Regards

Kavouss 

2015-12-28 21:31 GMT+01:00 Eric Brunner-Williams <ebw at abenaki.wabanaki.net <mailto:ebw at abenaki.wabanaki.net> >:

Well, lets start with the allocation of a scarce resource -- ipv4 addresses. Does the Corporation have an interest in the allocation being (a) congenial with routing, and possibly conservative as well (a subject of serious discussion on an RIR's policy mailing list), and (b) not captured by a single, or several, allocatee(s)?

Clearly there is a broadly held interest that routing work, and address exhaustion delayed as long as possible, and the distribution of allocations be somewhat uniform, reflecting shared goals of DARPA, the conversion from classful to classless allocation, and of course, Jon's farming out regionally the addressing component of his work at ISI, and a wicked large number of beneficiaries of these efforts to ensure routing, conservation, and at regional distribution.

We have come some way from the point in time when MIT campus held more allocated v4 addresses than all of the access providers in the PRC combined. The design of v6 allows at least one address per human being, a property absent in the v4 design.

Incorporating my note of the 25th, the Corporation Board has, over its nearly two decades of existence, observed that a public interest exists in access to numeric endpoint identifiers, and in access to mnemonic endpoint identifiers, unrestricted by region or language, and to some degree, only slightly restricted by access to capital, where packetized data communication is supported by communications infrastructure. This Corporation observation of public interests in access to endpoint identifiers is indistinguishable from the allocation behavior of the prior parties exercising "technical coordination", and so continuous, and likely to remain so in the foreseeable future.

The suggestion that finding a public interest is an exercise in sophistry would of necessity apply to the current, and prior, Corporation Boards, and those responsible for technical coordination of endpoint identifiers prior to November, 1998, specifically any representations that their acts to make numbers or names accessible to later adopters were in a public interest.

Eric Brunner-Williams
Eugene, Oregon 

On 12/27/15 10:58 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:

Hi,

I'm sort of loathe to dive into this discussion, but I think there's a
useful thread in here that is worth tugging on so that we can see the
quality of the weave.

My biggest worry about the phrase "the global public interest" is not
the meaning of "global", "public", or "interest", but "the".  By
claiming that something is or is not in _the_ global public interest,
the definite article implies that there is such an interest (or maybe,
such a public); that there is exactly one; and, perhaps most
interesting, that one knows what that is.  Even if I were to grant (I
do not, but let's say for the sake of argument) that there is a fact
of the matter about the the interest of the global public, I cannot
imagine how one would test a claim that something is or is not in said
interest.

The quest to come up with a definition of "the global public
interest", therefore, is an attempt to create such a test; but it's
really a dodge in a Wittgenstinean language-game.  Were we to unpack
any such definition that was even widely acceptable, we'd discover
either that some interest (or public) would be left out, or else that
some conflict inherent in the definition would be obscured.  For the
basic problem is that you cannot define "the global public interest"
in a way that is all of universally acceptable, useful for the
purposes of making tough decisions, and true.  Even apparently simple
and obvious cases -- "It is in the global public interest for war to
end" -- turn out to be troublesome.  For example, people fighting a
current war are presumably doing it for some other end, so they'd only
agree to that example statement with the implicit premise, "as long as
my desired outcome is assured."

A definition of "the global public interest" will be ever more
troublesome the clearer it tries to be, because the list of specifics
will start to be long.  I think our experience in working on the
mission statement is mighty instructive, and it is at least scoped
merely to the parts of the Internet ICANN directly touches -- whatever
we think those are.

As a consequence, I think a claim that _x_ is [not] in "the global
public interest" is really just a way of saying, "I [don't] think _x_
should happen."  Such a claim is part of a tussle, like the "Tussle in
Cyberspace" described by Clark, Wroclawski, Sollins, and Braden (see
http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1074049).  It's a nice rhetorical
move to claim that you can define the tussle away, but you can't (at
least, not legitimately).  I think we should be honest with ourselves
that such definitional efforts will create wheels that do no work.

Best regards,

A

_______________________________________________
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org> 
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/accountability-cross-community/attachments/20151228/0dbb0923/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 2849 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/accountability-cross-community/attachments/20151228/0dbb0923/image001-0001.png>