[CCWG-ACCT] Who is managing the lawyers and what have they beenasked to do?

Matthew Shears mshears at cdt.org
Mon Jul 6 15:41:25 UTC 2015


Have to say that I agree with Greg.

On 7/6/2015 11:28 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
> I do not share any of those "understandings" or "basic principles".  
> Those may be the opinions of some, but they are by no means the 
> understandings of the CCWG.  I would reject these as basic principles.
>
> Greg
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com 
> <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I have no problem with having a new proposal presented. However it
>     is important that there some adherence to basic principles on
>     proposals that the ccwg would not want to explore. Three areas
>     comes to mind:
>
>     - Its my understanding that anything that will turn some/all of
>     the SO/AC to members and thereby exposing them to legal challenge
>     is not acceptable
>     - Its my understanding that anything that allows removal of
>     individual board member without the approval of the entire(or
>     larger part) of the community is not acceptable
>     - Its my understanding that a solution that allows direct
>     community veto on certain elements like budget, strategic plan et
>     all is not acceptable but an indirect enforcement could be
>     considered (i.e using a power to get another power executed
>     indirectly)
>
>     Some/none of the above may be acceptable by us, but my point is
>     that there should be some focus going forward, especially if the
>     target of ICANN54 is to be meet
>
>     Regards
>
>
>     On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org
>     <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>> wrote:
>
>         I would also like to hear what they propose at this stage.  I
>         really don't see how it could hurt to have another proposal to
>         consider.  Larry Strickling did say he wanted us to be sure we
>         examined all the options carefully.
>
>         Thanks,
>         Robin
>
>         On Jul 6, 2015, at 7:32 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
>
>>         I agree.  We should have the benefit of their thoughts.
>>
>>         Greg
>>
>>         On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Jordan Carter
>>         <jordan at internetnz.net.nz <mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz>>
>>         wrote:
>>
>>             Well, I would really really like to see what the creative
>>             thinking they have done has suggested. I trust our
>>             ability as a group to make decisions, and do not believe
>>             we should cut off input from any direction...
>>
>>             Jordan
>>
>>             On 7 July 2015 at 01:13, James Gannon
>>             <james at cyberinvasion.net
>>             <mailto:james at cyberinvasion.net>> wrote:
>>
>>                 Hey Avri,
>>
>>                 Yes the 3rd model was brought up, and the lawyers
>>                 feel that it might be a cleaner way for us to get the
>>                 powers that we need.
>>                 But without a call from the CCWG to present it they
>>                 feel that its not their position to propose a model
>>                 on their own initiative.
>>
>>                 Personally i would like to see what they have come up
>>                 with but the CCWG would need to ask as an overall
>>                 group for the chairs to direct them to give some more
>>                 information on the model if we wanted it.
>>                 I think if after we hear from them on Tuesdays call
>>                 we still feel we might have some shortcomings that it
>>                 might be the time to ask them about the 3rd option.
>>
>>                 Also +1 I think they are really enjoying the work and
>>                 are finding themselves getting more and more involved
>>                 as we go on, which is great for the CCWG as the more
>>                 background and details they know the better that are
>>                 able to give us solid well reasoned advice in my
>>                 opinion.
>>
>>                 -James
>>
>>
>>>                 On 6 Jul 2015, at 13:19, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
>>>                 <mailto:avri at acm.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Hi,
>>>
>>>                 I have not had a chance to get back to the recording
>>>                 of the  call. Not
>>>                 sure I will, that time was the time I had for that
>>>                 call and that is why
>>>                 i was listening then.
>>>
>>>                 In any case, the lawyers were talking about a new
>>>                 model they had come up
>>>                 with, but not knowing what to do about it since they
>>>                 had not been asked
>>>                 for a new model.
>>>
>>>                 I was told to leave before I got to hear the end of
>>>                 that story. Or about
>>>                 the model itself. Anyone who has had a chance to
>>>                 listen, whatever happened?
>>>
>>>                 avri
>>>
>>>                 ps. sometimes i think the lawyers are getting
>>>                 interested in what we are
>>>                 doing, almost like stakeholders. not that i expect
>>>                 them to give up their
>>>                 hourly rates because they are stakeholders.
>>>
>>>                 On 06-Jul-15 05:07, James Gannon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 I listened to the last co-chairs lawyers’ call at;
>>>>                 https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=53782602
>>>>                 (I’m a glutton for punishment)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 It was a short call and I’ll make a particular note
>>>>                 that Leon and
>>>>                 Mathieu made a point of not making any decisions on
>>>>                 behalf of the
>>>>                 whole group and made it clear anything requiring a
>>>>                 decision must be
>>>>                 made by the overall CCWG, so I was happy with that
>>>>                 side of things
>>>>                 myself, most of my own fears about not having a
>>>>                 sub-group are somewhat
>>>>                 assuaged.
>>>>
>>>>                 So my paraphrasing and overview is:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 ·         Lawyers working hard on the models for us
>>>>                 collaboratively
>>>>                 between the two firms since BA
>>>>
>>>>                 ·         Lawyers are prepping a presentation to
>>>>                 give to us ASAP
>>>>                 before Paris if possible, that presentation will
>>>>                 take the majority of
>>>>                 a call, it can’t be done quickly, they need about
>>>>                 45mins uninterrupted
>>>>                 to go through the presentation and then would
>>>>                 likely need Q&A time
>>>>                 after they present.
>>>>
>>>>                 ·         Some small wording/clarifications to come
>>>>                 back to the CCWG
>>>>                 to make sure everyone’s on the same page
>>>>
>>>>                 ·         Everyone feels Paris will be an important
>>>>                 time for the
>>>>                 models, lawyers will be ready for a grilling on the
>>>>                 details of the
>>>>                 models from us to flesh out any of our
>>>>                 concerns/questions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Note that the above is all my very condensed
>>>>                 overview of the
>>>>                 conversations.
>>>>
>>>>                 It seemed like a productive call to me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 -James
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 *From:*accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>                 [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org>]
>>>>                 *On Behalf
>>>>                 Of *Greg Shatan
>>>>                 *Sent:* Monday, July 06, 2015 5:33 AM
>>>>                 *To:* Carlos Raul
>>>>                 *Cc:* accountability-cross-community at icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
>>>>                 *Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Who is managing the
>>>>                 lawyers and what have
>>>>                 they beenasked to do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Carlos,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 As the legal sub-team was disbanded, your guess is
>>>>                 as good as mine.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Carlos Raul
>>>>                 <carlosraulg at gmail.com <mailto:carlosraulg at gmail.com>
>>>>                 <mailto:carlosraulg at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                    Thank you Greg!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                    It makes a lot of sense and I guess those are
>>>>                 all good reasons as
>>>>                    we hired them in the first place. What are the
>>>>                 next steps now?
>>>>                    What happened in the recent call?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                    Best regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                    Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez
>>>>
>>>>                 +506 8837 7176 <tel:%2B506%208837%207176>
>>>>                 <tel:%2B506%208837%207176>
>>>>
>>>>                    Skype carlos.raulg
>>>>
>>>>                    _________
>>>>
>>>>                    Apartado 1571-1000
>>>>
>>>>                    *COSTA RICA*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                    On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 12:02 AM, Greg Shatan
>>>>                    <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
>>>>                 <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com><mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>>
>>>>                 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                        Chris,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        That was tried to some extent, at least in
>>>>                 the CWG.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        There are several substantial problems with
>>>>                 that approach.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        First, lawyers are not fungible. The
>>>>                 particular legal skills,
>>>>                        background and experience required for the
>>>>                 issues before both
>>>>                        WGs are fairly specific, and in some cases,
>>>>                 very specific.
>>>>                        The primary core competency needed here is
>>>>                 corporate
>>>>                        governance. While a number of lawyers in the
>>>>                 community have a
>>>>                        reasonable working knowledge of the area, at
>>>>                 least in their
>>>>                        home jurisdictions, I don't believe there
>>>>                 are any who would
>>>>                        say that this is their primary focus and
>>>>                 expertise -- at least
>>>>                        none who identified themselves to either WG.
>>>>                 The second core
>>>>                        competency required, especially in the CCWG,
>>>>                 is non-profit
>>>>                        law. Again there are a number of lawyers
>>>>                 with a decent working
>>>>                        knowledge of this fairly broad field, but
>>>>                 not as a primary
>>>>                        focus. There may be a couple of lawyers in
>>>>                 the community who
>>>>                        would claim this fairly broad field as a
>>>>                 primary focus and
>>>>                        expertise -- but none who became involved
>>>>                 with either WG.
>>>>                        This then becomes further narrowed by
>>>>                 jurisdiction. Since
>>>>                        ICANN is a California non-profit
>>>>                 corporation, US corporate
>>>>                        governance and non-profit experience is more
>>>>                 relevant than
>>>>                        experience from other jurisdictions, and
>>>>                 California law
>>>>                        corporate governance and non-profit
>>>>                 experience is more
>>>>                        relevant than that from other US
>>>>                 jurisdictions. In my
>>>>                        experience, the more a US lawyer focuses on
>>>>                 a particular
>>>>                        substantive area, the greater their
>>>>                 knowledge of and comfort
>>>>                        with state law issues in US state
>>>>                 jurisdictions other than
>>>>                        their own (e.g., someone who spend a
>>>>                 majority of their time
>>>>                        working in corporate governance will have a
>>>>                 greater knowledge
>>>>                        of the law, issues, approaches and trends
>>>>                 outside their
>>>>                        primary state of practice, while someone who
>>>>                 spends a
>>>>                        relatively small amount of time in the area
>>>>                 will tend to feel
>>>>                        less comfortable outside their home
>>>>                 jurisdiction).  (An
>>>>                        exception is that many US lawyers have
>>>>                 specific knowledge of
>>>>                        certain Delaware corporate law issues,
>>>>                 because Delaware often
>>>>                        serves as the state of incorporation for
>>>>                 entities operating
>>>>                        elsewhere.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        Second, lawyers in the community will seldom
>>>>                 be seen as
>>>>                        neutral advisors, no matter how hard they
>>>>                 try.  They will tend
>>>>                        to be seen as working from their point of
>>>>                 view or stakeholder
>>>>                        group or "special interest" or desired
>>>>                 outcome, even if they
>>>>                        are trying to be even-handed. Over the
>>>>                 course of time, this
>>>>                        balancing act would tend to become more
>>>>                 untenable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        Third, the amount of time it would take to
>>>>                 provide truly
>>>>                        definitive legal advice (research, careful
>>>>                 drafting,
>>>>                        discussions with relevant "clients", etc.)
>>>>                 would be
>>>>                        prohibitive, even compared to the
>>>>                 substantial amount of time
>>>>                        it takes to provide reasonably well-informed
>>>>                 and competent
>>>>                        legal-based viewpoints in the course of
>>>>                 either WG's work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        Fourth, in order to formally counsel the
>>>>                 community, the lawyer
>>>>                        or lawyers in question would have to enter
>>>>                 into a formal
>>>>                        attorney-client relationship. Under US law, an
>>>>                        attorney-client relationship may
>>>>                 inadvertently be created by
>>>>                        the attorney's actions, so attorneys try to
>>>>                 be careful about
>>>>                        not providing formal legal advice without a
>>>>                 formal engagement
>>>>                        (sometimes providing an explicit "caveat" if
>>>>                 they feel they
>>>>                        might be getting too close to providing
>>>>                 legal advice).  If the
>>>>                        attorney is employed by a corporation, they
>>>>                 would likely be
>>>>                        unable to take on such a representation due
>>>>                 to the terms of
>>>>                        their employment, and that is before getting
>>>>                 to an exploration
>>>>                        of conflict of interest issues.  If the
>>>>                 attorney is employed
>>>>                        by a firm, the firm would have to sign off
>>>>                 on the
>>>>                        representation, again dealing with potential
>>>>                 conflict issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        Fifth, even if the above issues were all
>>>>                 somehow resolved, it
>>>>                        would be highly unlikely that any such
>>>>                 attorney would provide
>>>>                        substantial amounts of advice, written
>>>>                 memos, counseling, etc.
>>>>                        on a pro bono (unpaid) basis, especially
>>>>                 given the
>>>>                        time-consuming nature of the work.  Pro bono
>>>>                 advice and
>>>>                        representation is generally accorded to
>>>>                 individuals and
>>>>                        entities that could not otherwise be able to
>>>>                 pay for it.  That
>>>>                        is clearly not the case here, at least with
>>>>                 ICANN taking
>>>>                        financial responsibility. It would likely be
>>>>                 very difficult
>>>>                        to justify this to, e.g., a firm's pro bono
>>>>                 committee, as a
>>>>                        valid pro bono representation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        Sixth, if ICANN were not taking the role
>>>>                 they are taking, it
>>>>                        would be extremely difficult to identify the
>>>>                 "client" in this
>>>>                        situation. The "community"  is a collection
>>>>                 of sectors,
>>>>                        mostly represented by various ICANN-created
>>>>                 structures, which
>>>>                        in turn have members of widely varying types
>>>>                 (individuals,
>>>>                        corporations, sovereigns, non-profits, IGOs,
>>>>                 partnerships,
>>>>                        etc.). This would also make it extremely
>>>>                 difficult to enter
>>>>                        into a formal counseling relationship with
>>>>                 the "community."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        Seventh, this is a sensitive, high-profile,
>>>>                 transformative set
>>>>                        of actions we are involved in, which is
>>>>                 subject to an
>>>>                        extraordinary amount of scrutiny, not least
>>>>                 that of the NTIA
>>>>                        and the US Congress. That eliminates any
>>>>                 possibility of
>>>>                        providing informal, off-the-cuff, reasonably
>>>>                 well-informed but
>>>>                        not quite expert, "non-advice" advice --
>>>>                 which might happen in
>>>>                        a more obscure exercise. There's simply too
>>>>                 much at stake.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        Finally, I would say that a number of
>>>>                 attorneys involved in
>>>>                        one or both of the WGs are in fact providing
>>>>                 a significant
>>>>                        amount of legal knowledge and experience to
>>>>                 the WGs, helping
>>>>                        to frame issues, whether in terms of general
>>>>                 leadership (e.g.,
>>>>                        Thomas, Leon, Becky) or more specifically in a
>>>>                        "lawyer-as-client" capacity -- working with
>>>>                 outside counsel,
>>>>                        tackling the more legalistic issues,
>>>>                 providing as much legal
>>>>                        background and knowledge as possible without
>>>>                 providing the
>>>>                        type of formal legal advice that would tend
>>>>                 to create an
>>>>                        attorney-client relationship, etc.  So I do
>>>>                 think that many
>>>>                        lawyers in the community are giving greatly
>>>>                 of themselves in
>>>>                        this process, even though they cannot and
>>>>                 would not be able to
>>>>                        formally be engaged by the community as its
>>>>                 "counsel of record."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        In sum, it might be a nice thought in
>>>>                 theory, but it is no way
>>>>                        a practical possibility.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 3:08 AM, CW Lists
>>>>                        <lists at christopherwilkinson.eu
>>>>                 <mailto:lists at christopherwilkinson.eu>
>>>>                        <mailto:lists at christopherwilkinson.eu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                            Good morning:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                            I had decided not to enter this debate.
>>>>                 But I am bound to
>>>>                            say that the thought had occurred to me
>>>>                 at the time, that
>>>>                            there were more than enough qualified
>>>>                 lawyers in this
>>>>                            community that they could perfectly well
>>>>                 have counselled …
>>>>                            themselves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                            CW
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                            On 04 Jul 2015, at 08:41, Greg Shatan
>>>>                            <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
>>>>                 <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com><mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>>
>>>>                            wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                Wolfgang,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                To your first point, the billing
>>>>                 rates were clearly
>>>>                                stated in the law firms' engagement
>>>>                 letters.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                To your second point, I'm sure we
>>>>                 could all think of
>>>>                                other projects and goals where the
>>>>                 money could have
>>>>                                been "better spent."  You've stated
>>>>                 yours.  But that
>>>>                                is not the proper test.  This was
>>>>                 and continues to be
>>>>                                money we need to spend to achieve
>>>>                 the goals we have
>>>>                                set. Under different circumstances,
>>>>                 perhaps it would
>>>>                                be a different amount (or maybe none
>>>>                 at all).  But it
>>>>                                was strongly felt at the outset that
>>>>                 the group needed
>>>>                                to have independent counsel. Clearly
>>>>                 that counsel
>>>>                                needed to have recognized expertise
>>>>                 in the appropriate
>>>>                                legal areas.  As such, I believe we
>>>>                 made excellent
>>>>                                choices and have been very well
>>>>                 represented.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                As to your "better spent" test, I
>>>>                 just had to have
>>>>                                $4000.00 worth of emergency dental
>>>>                 work done.  This
>>>>                                money definitely could have been
>>>>                 "better spent" on a
>>>>                                nice vacation, redecorating our
>>>>                 living room or on
>>>>                                donations to my favored charitable
>>>>                 causes.  But I had
>>>>                                no choice, other than to choose
>>>>                 which dentist and
>>>>                                endodontist I went to, and I wasn't
>>>>                 going to cut
>>>>                                corners -- the dental work was a
>>>>                 necessity.
>>>>                                Similarly, the legal work we are
>>>>                 getting is a
>>>>                                necessity and whether we would have
>>>>                 preferred to spend
>>>>                                the money elsewhere is not merely
>>>>                 irrelevant, it is an
>>>>                                incorrect and inappropriate
>>>>                 proposition. Many of us
>>>>                                are investing vast quantities of
>>>>                 time that could be
>>>>                                "better spent" elsewhere as well,
>>>>                 but we are willing
>>>>                                (grudgingly sometimes) to spend the
>>>>                 time it takes to
>>>>                                get it right, because we believe it
>>>>                 needs to be done.
>>>>                                This is the appropriate measure,
>>>>                 whether it comes to
>>>>                                our time or counsels' time.  If we
>>>>                 believe in this
>>>>                                project, we have to invest in it,
>>>>                 and do what it takes
>>>>                                to succeed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                Of course, this investment has to be
>>>>                 managed wisely
>>>>                                and cost-effectively, and by and
>>>>                 large, I believe the
>>>>                                CCWG has done that reasonably well
>>>>                 -- not perfectly,
>>>>                                but reasonably well and with "course
>>>>                 corrections"
>>>>                                along the way intended to improve
>>>>                 that management.
>>>>                                It's certainly fair to ask, as Robin
>>>>                 has done, for a
>>>>                                better understanding of that
>>>>                 management as we go
>>>>                                along. But asserting that the money
>>>>                 could have been
>>>>                                "better spent" elsewhere sets up a
>>>>                 false test that we
>>>>                                should not use to evaluate this
>>>>                 important aspect of
>>>>                                our work. Instead, we need to focus
>>>>                 on whether the
>>>>                                money was "well spent" on these
>>>>                 critical legal
>>>>                                services. If you have reason to
>>>>                 believe it was not,
>>>>                                that could be useful to know.  That
>>>>                 would at least be
>>>>                                the right discussion to have.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 1:13 AM,
>>>>                 "Kleinwächter,
>>>>                                Wolfgang"
>>>>                                <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de
>>>>                 <mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
>>>>                                <mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>>
>>>>                                wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                                    HI,
>>>>
>>>>                                    and please if you ask outside
>>>>                 lawyers, ask for the
>>>>                                    price tag in advance. Some of
>>>>                 the money spend fo
>>>>                                    lawyers could have been spend
>>>>                 better to suppport
>>>>                                    and enable Internet user and
>>>>                 non-commercial groups
>>>>                                    in developing countries.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                    Wolfgang
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                    -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>                                    Von:
>>>>                 accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>                                    <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>                                    im Auftrag von Robin Gross
>>>>                                    Gesendet: Fr 03.07.2015 14:57
>>>>                                    An:accountability-cross-community at icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
>>>>                                    <mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
>>>>                                    Community
>>>>                                    Betreff: [CCWG-ACCT] Who is
>>>>                 managing the lawyers
>>>>                                    and what have they beenasked to do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                    After the legal sub-team was
>>>>                 disbanded, I haven't
>>>>                                    been able to follow what
>>>>                 communications are
>>>>                                    happening with CCWG and the
>>>>                 independent lawyers we
>>>>                                    retained.
>>>>
>>>>                                    I understand the lawyers are
>>>>                 currently "working on
>>>>                                    the various models" and will
>>>>                 present something to
>>>>                                    us regarding that work soon.
>>>>                 However, *what
>>>>                                    exactly* have the lawyers been
>>>>                 asked to do and
>>>>                                    *who* asked them?   If there are
>>>>                 written
>>>>                                    instructions, may the group
>>>>                 please see them?  Who
>>>>                                    is now taking on the role of
>>>>                 managing the outside
>>>>                                    attorneys for this group,
>>>>                 including providing
>>>>                                    instructions and certifying
>>>>                 legal work?
>>>>
>>>>                                    Sorry, but I'm really trying to
>>>>                 understand what is
>>>>                                    happening, and there doesn't
>>>>                 seem to be much
>>>>                                    information in the public on
>>>>                 this (or if there is,
>>>>                                    I can't find it).  Thanks for
>>>>                 any information
>>>>                                    anyone can provide.
>>>>
>>>>                                    Best,
>>>>                                    Robin
>>>>
>>>>                                    _______________________________________________
>>>>                                    Accountability-Cross-Community
>>>>                 mailing list
>>>>                 Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org>
>>>>                                    <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org>
>>>>                 https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                _______________________________________________
>>>>                                Accountability-Cross-Community
>>>>                 mailing list
>>>>                 Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
>>>>                 <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org>
>>>>                                <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org>
>>>>                 https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                        _______________________________________________
>>>>                        Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
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>>>>                        <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>                 Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>             Chief Executive
>>             *InternetNZ*
>>
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>
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>     -- 
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>         /Seun Ojedeji,
>         Federal University Oye-Ekiti
>         web: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
>         Mobile: +2348035233535
>         //alt email:<http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
>         <mailto:seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>/
>
>             The key to understanding is humility - my view !
>
>
>
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-- 
Matthew Shears
Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
+ 44 (0)771 247 2987

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