[CCWG-ACCT] Staff accountability

Avri Doria avri at acm.org
Sat Jul 18 12:20:10 UTC 2015


Hi,

In the cartoon, you are The Coyote and ICANN is the roadrunner?

cheers,
avri


On 18-Jul-15 14:09, Kieren McCarthy wrote:
> My thought on that statement is best summed up by this graphic... :)
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 1:22 PM Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
> <mailto:avri at acm.org>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     And what I am saying is that it isn't a mistake, just a job not yet
>     completed.
>
>     avri
>
>
>     On 17-Jul-15 22:15, Kieren McCarthy wrote:
>     > What I am saying Avri is that we should not keep making the same
>     > mistake over and over again.
>     >
>     > And one of those mistakes is to continue to believe that a single
>     > person can bring a decent level of accountability to ICANN. They
>     > cannot. Especially when they are reliant on ICANN for doing
>     their job
>     > and getting paid.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Kieren
>     >
>     >
>     > On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
>     <mailto:avri at acm.org>
>     > <mailto:avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     Hi,
>     >
>     >     On 17-Jul-15 20:38, Kieren McCarthy wrote:
>     >     > > some personnel issues should remain confidential,
>     >     >
>     >     > I don't understand why people keep putting this strawman out
>     >     there. No
>     >     > one is suggesting, or indeed has ever suggested, that
>     personnel
>     >     issues
>     >     > be included in a proper accountability mechanism.
>     >
>     >     True.
>     >
>     >     >
>     >     > > Why would a strengthened ombudsman not be a good fit for
>     this
>     >     role?
>     >     >
>     >     > I'll give you three good reasons:
>     >     >
>     >     > 1. The Ombudsman was created in 2004. Despite numerous efforts
>     >     to make
>     >     > the role effective, it has never happened. Why keep making
>     the same
>     >     > mistake?
>     >
>     >     Previous failure is not a mistake.
>     >     I believe we can succeed at doing this.
>     >
>     >     And the Ombudsman can get access to any information.  It is
>     uncertain
>     >     how much he can do with it at this point, but at least
>     someone who is
>     >     trusted can look and can give testimony about the validity of
>     >     redactions.
>     >
>     >     Sure I would like to see ICANN live of to ATRT obligations, 
>     take
>     >     on CSR
>     >     seriously, have reasonable RR and stronger independent
>     reviews and
>     >     audits &c., but we should not give up the partial successes
>     >     because they
>     >     are not right yet.  WS2 will focus on strengthening the
>     ombudsman role
>     >     and I think we can do it.
>     >
>     >     >
>     >     > 2. The Ombudsman is completely reliant on ICANN corporate. For
>     >     access
>     >     > to people and documents, for resources, for salary, for
>     technical
>     >     > support, for logistical support, for an office, for a room
>     at ICANN
>     >     > meetings, for everything except his own body. And his role and
>     >     what he
>     >     > can do is determined by ICANN's legal department in the
>     rules that
>     >     > they wrote. The Ombudsman also signs a very strong
>     confidentiality
>     >     > agreement with ICANN that effectively ties their hands on
>     everything
>     >     > except illegal activity. See point 1.
>     >
>     >     Ombudsman in general are paid for by the company they work
>     for.  And
>     >     they often still have strong independence.  Some even have power
>     >     to fix
>     >     things.  We should fix the aspects of the ombudsman support that
>     >     need to
>     >     be fixed, we should not give up.
>     >
>     >     See response to point 1.
>     >
>     >     >
>     >     > 3. An Ombudsman is a single person. And one completely
>     reliant on
>     >     > ICANN. This provides an enormous degree of control by
>     ICANN and very
>     >     > little freedom for the accountability role the Ombusdsman is
>     >     supposed
>     >     > to fulfill. There are numerous people able to testify that
>     ICANN
>     >     > corporate has no hesitation in applying significant
>     pressure on
>     >     > individuals if they act in a way that it deemed a
>     potential threat.
>     >     > All of those people are however under confidentiality
>     agreements
>     >     with
>     >     > ICANN.
>     >     >
>     >
>     >     Actually we have an Ombudsman's office with 2 people in it.
>     >
>     >     It either needs to be fixed or we need to walk away from ICANN.
>     >     Some of
>     >     us have done so and are probably making a good living picking on
>     >     ICANN,
>     >     and some of us are thinking of walking away just to make a
>     living
>     >     (volunteering is a difficult vocation).  But those who do stay
>     >     need  to
>     >     keep trying to fix it for as long as they do stay.  And new
>     people
>     >     come
>     >     to the effort all the time, determined to succeed where we fail.
>     >
>     >     For anyone who says ICANN never improves, I ask them to
>     think back
>     >     to a
>     >     decade ago and compare.  Problems there still are, but it is
>     nowhere
>     >     near as bad as it once was. Could be a lot better, but also
>     could be a
>     >     lot worse.
>     >
>     >     >
>     >     > The only way to bring actual accountability to ICANN is to
>     have
>     >     people
>     >     > that are not dependent on ICANN and are not muzzled by
>     >     confidentiality
>     >     > agreements asking the questions.
>     >
>     >     True they are necessary.  But they are only one part of the
>     >     story.  They
>     >     need internal allies.
>     >     And it is my impression that though not as effective as he
>     could have
>     >     been due to conditions you describe, the ombudsman has
>     helped in many
>     >     cases.  And does as much as possible to support the people who
>     >     need help.
>     >
>     >     > And those people are... the 2,000 people that turn up to ICANN
>     >     > meetings. The community.
>     >
>     >     Actually aren't most of them there to wheel and deal?
>     >     Only hundreds go to meetings dedicated to doing the policy
>     stuff.
>     >
>     >     And they need the support of a strong ombudsman office.
>     >     and a CSR officer, and ...
>     >
>     >     That is what this process is all about.
>     >
>     >     avri
>     >
>     >
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