[CCWG-ACCT] way forward and minority statements
Stephanie Perrin
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Thu Jul 30 15:31:26 UTC 2015
No actually I am referring to scammers, spammers, doxxers, and really
irritating (but not criminal) commercial elements who mine the WHOIS
database to pursue innocent folks who have to publish their confidential
information to the world in order to register a domain name.
A public directory is not the way to control lawbreakers who hide behind
proxy services, as has been amply debated in the recent PPSAI public
comments period.
Anyway lets take this debate elsewhere as it does not contribute much to
the topic. Except, I would point out, that the risk balance between the
harm done by public disclosure through WHOIS has changed in the 17 years
that the Internet has been growing up, and it is time to revisit who is
at risk, and determine where the human rights obligations fall. As you
can tell, I believe privacy and the people who need it are more at risk
today than law enforcement operations (who can find the registrars and
the ISPs, and request the data they need there, in addition to more
relevant info such as payment details). Disclosure of address and phone
numbers is permanent and irrevocable thanks to value added services that
have grown up to mine the WHOIS data.
kind regards,
Stephanie
On 2015-07-30 11:18, Greg Shatan wrote:
> Stephanie,
>
> Are you referring to the criminal element who knows how to use WHOIS
> to hide themselves? That is certainly a huge problem and not limited
> to violations of criminal law -- it is also a huge problem with regard
> to lawbreakers whose actions are not criminal in nature.
>
> Greg
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Stephanie Perrin
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
> Totally agree Nigel, but providing access to law enforcement is
> not the same as publishing to the world, and the criminal element
> who know how to use WHOIS. At the moment, options for nuanced
> disclosure are limited.
> SP
>
>
> On 2015-07-30 11:00, Nigel Roberts wrote:
>
> Stephanie
>
> The whole debate about the right to private and family life is
> more nuanced.
>
> Without turning this list into a discussion on how respect for
> human rights is guaranteed on this contintent, it's worth
> pointing out that respecting the right of privacy does NOT
> mean closing off domain registration data to law enforcment.
> Quite the opposite.
>
> The privacy right is a qualified right -- so it CAN be
> interfered with
>
> - lawfully, when necessary in a democratic society; so long as
> it is
> - proportionate.
>
> And I don't think that conflicts with anybody's 'marching orders'.
>
>
> On 30/07/15 15:53, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>
> I hate to complicate this discussion, but I feel duty
> bound to point out
> that the first human right many people think of these days
> with respect
> to the domain name registration system is privacy. Freedom of
> expression and the openness of the Internet rolls more
> easily off the
> tongue....but if anyone says what about privacy, the WHOIS
> would have to
> be re-examined. This of course conflicts with the
> marching orders that
> the NTIA has had for ICANN since its inception.
> Stephanie Perrin
>
> On 2015-07-30 5:59, Erika Mann wrote:
>
> In addition to Avri's points, such a provision could
> help as well to
> ensure that future business models that relate to more
> sensitive
> strings (.gay for example) will continue to be treated
> as any other
> string.
>
> Erika
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Avri Doria
> <avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>
> <mailto:avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Off the top of my head, I think a first thing we
> would have to do
> would
> be to start understanding the impact, if any, of
> ICANN operations and
> policies on human rights. Some of this work is
> already starting
> in the
> human rights working party (HRWP), though that is
> a rather informal
> beginning. I would also think that some part of
> the staff would
> need to
> start taking these issues into consideration. I do
> not think that it
> would cause any serious changes in the near future
> but would make us
> more aware as time went on, and would give us a
> basis for discussion
> both in the HRWP and in the ACSO and Board.
>
> In terms of the specific things it might limt us
> from, and this would
> require some analysis on specifc events, might be
> creating any
> kinds of
> policies or operations that forced limitation of
> content, beyond the
> limitations required by law for incitement, on
> domain named sites. It
> would in fact strengthen our postion in that respect.
>
> Most important though, it would cover a hole left
> by the loss of the
> NTIA backstop, on any issue concerning freedom of
> expression, free
> flow
> of information or openness of the Internet.
>
> thanks
> avri
>
> On 30-Jul-15 11:07, Drazek, Keith wrote:
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > I'll have to defer to others with more expertise
> on this one.
> It's a
> > good question that should be addressed.
> >
> > Best,
> > Keith
> >
> > On Jul 30, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Chris Disspain
> <ceo at auda.org.au <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au>
> <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au>>
> > <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au>
> <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au>>>> wrote:
> >
> >> Keith,
> >>
> >> This looks interesting. Could we think of an
> example of something
> >> concrete ICANN would have to do if it made this
> commitment? Or
> >> something it would not be able to do?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 30 Jul 2015, at 18:16 , Drazek, Keith
> <kdrazek at verisign.com <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>
> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com
> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>>
> >>> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com
> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>
> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com
> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Avri,
> >>>
> >>> In order to tie your suggestion directly to
> the language in
> >>> Secretary Strickling's April 2014 written
> congressional testimony
> >>> (included in a prior email) and to reduce
> concerns about scope
> >>> creep, would language along these lines be
> acceptable to you?
> >>>
> >>>> "Within its mission and in its operations,
> ICANN will be
> committed
> >>>> to respect the fundamental human rights of
> the exercise of free
> >>>> expression and the free flow of information."
> >>>
> >>> Speaking personally, I could probably support
> this formulation. To
> >>> be clear, I have not discussed this with the
> RySG, but it's
> >>> consistent with the requirements outlined by
> NTIA so I think it's
> >>> certainly worth considering.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not advocating including this in the
> Bylaws, but I'm not
> >>> objecting to it either. However, if we don't
> reach consensus for
> >>> adding to the Bylaws, I definitely think this
> is worth further
> >>> consideration in WS2 and would support an
> explicit reference using
> >>> this or similar language and timetable for
> doing so.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Keith
> >>>
> >>>> On Jul 30, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Avri Doria
> <avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>
> <mailto:avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>>
> >>>> <mailto:avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>
> <mailto:avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Within its mission, ICANN will be committed
> to respect
> fundamental
> >>>> human rights in its operationsespecially
> with regard to the
> exercise
> >>>> of free expression or the free flow of
> information.
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