[CCWG-ACCT] Legal cost reality

[Robin Gross]

Quick correction, of course I meant "Empowered Designator" model below in case there was any question.  I should have slept *before* sending.  ;-)

Robin

On Jun 27, 2015, at 5:21 PM, Robin Gross wrote:

> We have received significant quality legal advice from both firms and need to be a little understanding of how costs can be higher in this case than in a standard legal case.  We've got several dozen "clients" here -- all with expansive and contradictory requests and desires and coming from many countries and backgrounds, and that can lead to more legal work than a typical legal case.  From a corporate governance perspective, there hasn't ever been anything like ICANN before and it requires significantly more work and creative thinking than traditional and usual organizations would need.  
> 
> So let's try to focus on the work before us and what specific expertise is needed for the next phase of this effort.  The Empowered Delegate model is somewhat unique to California corporations law and a creature of California statutory and case law, so let's be sure to target our work going forward to the specific expertise that was retained for that piece of the overall work.  By not having several different attorneys/firms working on the same issues, and using the expertise in the more focused role for which it was retained, I think we can save both time and money going forward.
> 
> Thanks,
> Robin
> 
> 
> On Jun 27, 2015, at 9:17 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
> 
>> Seun,
>> 
>> I do not know how you concluded, based on cost alone, that we did not do a good job of strategizing how/when to use outside counsel, or that counsel costs were unduly high.  To the contrary, significant amounts of (unpaid) time have been spent within the WG on deciding when and what outside counsel should do.  Of course, we can always strive to do better, and indeed, adjustments have been made a few times over the course of our work with counsel to refine our methods, and I'm sure adjustments will continue to be made.  
>> 
>> I actually think we have done a good job all along, and the cost reflects the amount of work that needed to be done.  Nothing more.  I don't think there's any need to "rewrite history," because that would imply that we failed in some significant respect.  I don't think that's the case, and I don't think that the cost alone is any evidence of that.
>> 
>> Seun, to further tax your imagination, if I billed for all of my time spent dealing with ICANN matters, it would easily exceed $100,000 a month over the last several months. (In fact, I bill for almost none of my time spent on ICANN matters, but that's beside the point.)  That said, I am keenly aware that we all live and work in different economies and that what seems proportionate in one economy may seem disproportionate (high or low) in other economies.  (For instance, I noted that a $10 cab ride in Buenos Aires would have cost about $30 in New York City.)  Nonetheless, in the economy where this work needs to be done, and for the quality of services that we need, this is not a disproportionate amount.
>> 
>> Finally, I would caution us against being unduly timid about using counsel when and where needed, because that is the surest path toward a suboptimal result, which would be a waste of time, effort and money for all of us.
>> 
>> Greg
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>> With due respect James, I am in no way belittling the work of legal council. I am rather wondering how we as a community recognising this huge cost did not better strategize on how/when to engage external council. The amount that has been spent on all participants of the ccwg and cwg(for remote/physical meetings) would seem to be competing with the total cost of legal advice (perhaps legal would even be more).
>> 
>> The deed has been done and we can't rewrite history. My comment is targeted more on the fact that we need to think of how we engage legal more efficiently going forward.
>> 
>> For the record, when Greg said top notch council are expensive, 500k monthly is just beyond my imagination!
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> sent from Google nexus 4
>> kindly excuse brevity and typos.
>> 
>> On 25 Jun 2015 18:23, "James Gannon" <james at cyberinvasion.net> wrote:
>> Our legal advice has been critical to our process and Sidley have been crucial to our successes.
>> I think we should be thanking them for their service, and yes top notch legal services are not cheap.
>> It is most certainly something that I have no issue with the community exercising its prudence over however lets not limit ourselves in any way to engage with our counsel.
>> 
>> -James
>> 
>> From: <accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Seun Ojedeji
>> Date: Thursday 25 June 2015 18:20
>> To: "accountability-cross-community at icann.org"
>> Subject: [CCWG-ACCT] Fwd: Legal cost reality
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Over 500k USD a month for legal is sure not how someone like me from developing region would like to see ICANN spend it's resources.
>> It's my hope that this working group Co-Chairs would be sensitive of that fact!
>> 
>> Regards
>> sent from Google nexus 4
>> kindly excuse brevity and typos.
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
>> Date: 25 Jun 2015 18:15
>> Subject: Legal cost reality
>> To: <cwg-stewardship at icann.org>
>> Cc: 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I hope those who want to always push issues to external legal advice would appreciate the need to be strategic and prudent about this. Over 500,000USD already spent on Sidley is definitely not what we like ICANN to keep spending it's resources on.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> sent from Google nexus 4
>> kindly excuse brevity and typos.
>> 
>> 
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