[CCWG-ACCT] Other forms of Accountability?

Tue Mar 3 06:59:08 UTC 2015

If I can't spell my name it's time to go to bed.

Greg

On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:

> While staff can't be reporting to the community,  they can certainly be
> accountable to the community -- directly or indirectly. A 360 degree review
> of staff (especially community-facing or -visible staff) including the
> staff in that circumference wouldn't be a bad idea at all.
>
> Geg
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:49 AM, Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz>
> wrote:
>
>> hi all,
>>
>> On 3 March 2015 at 14:31, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> While I agree on the monopolistic analysis, I will just like to note
>>> that ICANN is not the only organisation in such situation; RIRs for
>>> instance is another example and they are ran by board.
>>>
>> The RIRs are membership organisations. Their boards are elected by their
>> members and the members essentially own the organisations - and so there is
>> a powerful direct accountability mechanism already in place to deal with
>> problems - a mechanism that ICANN lacks.
>>
>>> I think it will be dangerous OR at least not advisable to subject staff
>>> to direct accountability to the community. The best that could be done is
>>> to get the board to do it's job and I think the ultimate ability to remove
>>> a board member would be enough incentive for any board to deliver on it's
>>> mandate.
>>>
>>
>> I agree we can't have staff reporting to the community, but do think
>> Jeff's posts give us food for thought.
>>
>> Jordan
>>
>>
>>> Regards
>>> sent from Google nexus 4
>>> kindly excuse brevity and typos.
>>> On 3 Mar 2015 05:30, "Jeff Neuman" <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  In a non-monopolistic environment, I would completely agree that a
>>>> corporation’s board (whether for profit or not for profit) would adequately
>>>> address the situation, since customers (in the case of for-profit) or
>>>> members (in the case of non-profit) would either cease purchasing the
>>>> company’s products/services or cancel membership in a non-profit
>>>> organization (as examples).  For example, if I am not happy with a company
>>>> that has proven it cannot keep my information confidential, I can simply
>>>> take my shopping elsewhere.  If I am not happy with a non-profit because it
>>>> is not serving my needs, I can go to other non-profits (or even form my
>>>> own).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But here, in the monopolistic environment where contracted parties have
>>>> no choice but to deal with ICANN, leaving these types of issues to the
>>>> Board without other meaningful redress is not enough accountability.  After
>>>> all, it is not as if the contracted parties could go elsewhere if
>>>> dissatisfied with the operations of ICANN (or in this case the lack of
>>>> security measures to protect information).  Thus, we have a true
>>>> accountability problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To summarize, in a monopolistic environment where demand for services
>>>> are inelastic, relying on a board to hold staff accountable for these types
>>>> of failures in my opinion is not enough.  Without the potential for losing
>>>> customers or community participation because of such failures, there is
>>>> little incentive for the board to act.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> These are just my personal opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Jeffrey J. Neuman*
>>>>
>>>> *Senior Vice President *|*Valideus USA* | *Com Laude USA*
>>>>
>>>> 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600
>>>>
>>>> Mclean, VA 22102, United States
>>>>
>>>> E: jeff.neuman at valideus.com or jeff.neuman at comlaude.com
>>>>
>>>> T: +1.703.635.7514
>>>>
>>>> M: +1.202.549.5079
>>>>
>>>> @Jintlaw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Jordan Carter [mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz]
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2015 8:33 PM
>>>> *To:* Jeff Neuman
>>>> *Cc:* accountability-cross-community at icann.org
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Other forms of Accountability?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Jeff for sharing this. I think the practical work going on in
>>>> the Working Parties is dealing with many broader items than just the ICANN
>>>> Board.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your example posits an interesting question: is "accountability"
>>>> focused on the governance level, or on operations?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is, is a staff level execution failure something the community or
>>>> customers has accountability tools to deal with, beyond ensuring the Board
>>>> holds CE to account?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One way of looking at this example is that it's up to the Board to hold
>>>> its Chief Executive responsible for delivering secure services and that
>>>> that's where it lies. If the Board fails to do so, some of the mechanisms
>>>> under debate would help deal with that. Review and redress options would
>>>> also provide some relief to those damaged.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jordan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3 March 2015 at 07:01, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Removing Board Directors, while taking up most of the discussion for
>>>> the last few weeks does not address most of the accountability issues we
>>>> have with ICANN.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure if you saw this article:
>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/02/icann_suffers_another_security_breach/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which accountability measures do we have to safeguard us from this?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Jeffrey J. Neuman*
>>>>
>>>> *Senior Vice President *|*Valideus USA* | *Com Laude USA*
>>>>
>>>> 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600
>>>>
>>>> Mclean, VA 22102, United States
>>>>
>>>> E: *jeff.neuman at valideus.com <jeff.neuman at valideus.com>* or *jeff.neuman at comlaude.com
>>>> <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>*
>>>>
>>>> T: +1.703.635.7514
>>>>
>>>> M: +1.202.549.5079
>>>>
>>>> @Jintlaw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
>>>> Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Jordan Carter
>>>>
>>>> Chief Executive
>>>> *InternetNZ*
>>>>
>>>> 04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)
>>>> jordan at internetnz.net.nz
>>>> Skype: jordancarter
>>>>
>>>> *A better world through a better Internet *
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
>>>> Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jordan Carter
>>
>> Chief Executive
>> *InternetNZ*
>>
>> 04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)
>> jordan at internetnz.net.nz
>> Skype: jordancarter
>>
>> *A better world through a better Internet *
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
>> Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *Gregory S. Shatan **ï* *Abelman Frayne & Schwab*
>
> *Partner* *| IP | Technology | Media | Internet*
>
> *666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621*
>
> *Direct*  212-885-9253 *| **Main* 212-949-9022
>
> *Fax*  212-949-9190 *|* *Cell *917-816-6428
>
> *gsshatan at lawabel.com <gsshatan at lawabel.com>*
>
> *ICANN-related: gregshatanipc at gmail.com <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>*
>
> *www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>*
>

-- 

*Gregory S. Shatan **ï* *Abelman Frayne & Schwab*

*Partner* *| IP | Technology | Media | Internet*

*666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621*

*Direct*  212-885-9253 *| **Main* 212-949-9022

*Fax*  212-949-9190 *|* *Cell *917-816-6428

*gsshatan at lawabel.com <gsshatan at lawabel.com>*

*ICANN-related: gregshatanipc at gmail.com <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>*

*www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/accountability-cross-community/attachments/20150303/a35136a3/attachment.html>