[CCWG-ACCT] Notes-Recordings-Transcript links for Accountability Legal Subteam - 10 March
Brenda Brewer
brenda.brewer at icann.org
Wed Mar 11 14:28:23 UTC 2015
Dear all,
The notes, recordings and transcripts for the CCWG Accountability LEGAL SubTeam call on 10 March
will be available here: https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=52891852
Action Items
ACTION ITEM: Provide more clarity on timeline as soon as possible.
ACTION ITEM: Verify CWG would have no objection if CCWG deduces to engage with same firm
Notes
Aim of call: Determine if Sidley has expertise and skills the CCWG is looking for to provide
independent legal advice the CCWG needs to build proper proposal for ICANN's transition.
1. Introductions
Call participants introduced themselves.
2. Brief Discussion
CCWG stems from need to enhance ICANN accountability mechanisms. CCWG is looking at existing
accountability mechanisms and trying to determine which mechanisms need to be integrated for a
smooth transition. Work has been divided into Work Streams:
*
* WS1 - mechanisms fairly committed or put in place by transition;
* WS2 - no need to be in place before transition takes place but needs to take place post
transition.
Main focus of the CCWG is to determine: how to appropriately enhance ICANN’s accountability to its
community in the absence of the historical back stop of the U.S. Government after the conclusion of
their historical relation when the IANA managing functions contract ends. A lot of external advice
is needed.
CCWG has reached out to ICANN legal first to obtain initial feedback but is also looking for
independent advice.
A draft scoping document is available at.
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/132V7P8nmyalhoso7zcevjW3_ox1laXn5JIEH3dDAF3A/edit>
https://docs.google.com/document/d/132V7P8nmyalhoso7zcevjW3_ox1laXn5JIEH3dDAF3A/edit#
Three items need to be put in place as part of WS1.
*
* Recalling members of the ICANN board of directors.
* Community empowerment over ICANN’s management.
* Limiting the scope of ICANN’s activity.
Timeline is a real challenge.
The CCWG is focused on making ICANN the best organization it can be for the purpose it is serves.
3. Discussion
- Transparency is essential . Do you have any issues with your advice being made public available?
--> Sidley is very comfortable with advice being public: it had this conversation with CWG and
crosschecked process with internal general counsel in process of retention with CWG. Working
procedures are designed to ensure that process is transparent. The firm has spent a lot of time
working with the CWG thinking about structure of relationship. It understands that the intent is to
provide independent legal advice. One of difficulties: neither CCWG nor CWG are incorporated, legal
entities - ICANN will pay for the bill. The choice was 1) have every member of the CWG/CCWG become
client which would imply going through onerous conflict check for each individual and get them to
sign a contract; 2) Have a direction signed by ICANN (technical/nominal client) which stipulates
that all directions are taken by CWG or CCWG and advice is directly provided to WGs only. It is very
clear that intent is that we ought to be thinking of concerns that are being brought by the CWG or
CCWG as we provide advice and not think about project from an ICANN perspective. Firm is comfortable
that is the direction given and that retention letter is clear on that. They have worked through
with internal general counsel to make sure it complies with ethical obligations.
- Important to know our task is not only because the NTIA contract has a window of opportunity for
opening - it is also because ICANN's accountability mechanisms are generally regarded as inadequate
(irrespective of NTIA contract).
- Timeline will most likely need to be adjusted since the community will not have reached sufficient
consensus or exploration of issues on the timeline suggested now.
- What is the firm's understanding of its duty of loyalty to ICANN, the corporation (as opposed to
CWG)?
--> Understand that duty of loyalty to ICANN is to fulfill direction it was given: provide
independent advice to CWG and take directions from CWG only. ICANN has waived all privileges and
made all directions direct. Will fulfill obligations to ICANN by carrying out what is in retention
letter.
- Do you see any other mechanism to achieve goal of transparency towards our own community?
--> Make retention letter public. Response to legal scoping document should also be made public as
well, subject to concerns. It may be that we ask some information to remain confidential if
providing information about client. There are a lot of mechanisms for transparency through
discussions, posting emails etc. We are open to suggestions.
- As in CWG, we should have public archived mailing list for substantive engagement to make sure it
is a transparent process to ICANN and global multistakeholder community.
- How would you see us interacting with you? Are there any concerns with respect to requirements to
track interactions with stakeholders? E.g. interaction from members of group that might approach
you. Ideally the relationship would be between Legal Subteam and firm but some may approach you
directly. Having a record may be desirable.
--> Important for clarity, efficiency and transparency that it be clear who we are taking direction
from. Comfortable with protocol that don't interact with individuals on one-on-one basis without
being logged in. We can move faster if understand who is authorized to pose questions. Cannot be
efficient if large number of people.
- We could also log that into mailing list so that all can see interaction. We would have to limit
to subject matter of CCWG.
--> Communicate progress and guidance to larger group so that people understand how decisions are
arrived at (iterative process) - this will help bolster confidence of larger stakeholder group in
recommendations.
- Would you be able to attend March meeting: how would you participate in working sessions with
larger group?
--> Will do best to work on conflits. Committed to working in whatever way CCWG considers useful.
What is the timeframe?
- León Sanchez walked Sidley through timeline -
<https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/50823981/CWG-CCWG_timeline_20150303.pdf?version=1&
modificationDate=1425369129000&api=v2>
https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/50823981/CWG-CCWG_timeline_20150303.pdf?version=1&m
odificationDate=1425369129000&api=v2. Working towards having a draft out of Istanbul for public
comment. Ultimate goal for WS1 would be to submit to Board by mid June for approval.
--> This is an aggressive timeframe in terms of legal advice. Priority is to get it right while
getting it done. Need to understand how you have identified three issues in the scoping document and
what else you considered and took off the table and why. Your insight on potential pathways you
considered would be useful to make sure we are giving a full view of what could be considering.
Diligence would need to be done soon through a call with Legal Subteam. A lot of it is contingent on
items that not in lawyer's control.
- May need to adjust timeline when time comes.
--> What sort of presentation is the CCWG contemplating during F2F meeting: is the need for
discussion of pros/cons of various specific proposals that have already been floated? Might be
doable if already in legal scoping vs. full out legal analysis submitted particularly if want to
suggest one system is more effective than the the other. This would be a more robust undertaking
that could not accomplished before Istanbul.
- First need to decide whether engage with law firm and then advise. Supposing we are engaging with
Sidley, should begin by answering legal scoping questions and combine how different answers to
questions may fit into work done by WPs. Need to have a broader look at different mechanisms so far
designed by WPs and see how they are legally feasible and play along with answers to scoping
document. This would be the expectation for Istanbul.
--> Experience with California Law not-for-profits: large not for profit practice, we have expertise
of that group behind us should need it.
--> Work for not for profits on general matters but also have been advising on governance,
directors, bylaws issues - recent research has been done on these. Large practice behind us.
Substantial knowledge of trust structures.
--> Experience with California not for profits on governance issues. Worked with large, federated,
international organizations many of which have complex relationships that need to be considered
where accountability system needs to be built that show interest are heard and have effect in
organization. Project helping on external communities finding consensus including governance
reforms. Commonalities in issues.
- Is it advisable to get same firm for CWG and CCWG? Would there be any cons to representing both
groups?
--> Both groups are working towards common end and have very similar interests. There is a fair
degree of crossover on some of the issues. No conflicts seen. We have deep bench on not for profit
side, on corporate side, on governance side and would be committed to putting any resources may
have.
- Some of our proposals concern restructuring ICANN into a membership or delegate based
organization. Do you have any experience in this type of restructuring?
--> Worked with membership organizations and helping restructure governance into membership
organizations with complex structure that helped to restructure but no experience with making a
non-member organization into a membership organization. Not for profit folks we can come up with
examples. Comfortable with advising around it. Don't think this would pose any difficulties.
- We have had experience converting cooperative organizations into more traditional full profit
entities. Governance and membership organization could be a possibility we could deploy here.
Further discussion needed on utility of this. There may be conflicting priorities that arise of
membership organization we would need to think about.
- Very significant advantages and minor disadvantages we can control for. Advantage are learning
curve, natural coordination and convergence of work going on between 2 groups. Accountability has a
longer lifespan – part of accountability work will dovetail with stewardship group but bigger field
of play. Disadvantages are conflicting timeline, overlapping responsibilities and against trend.
- How is workload balanced in the firm between partners and associates doing the work in this
matter?
--> Unusual project. It will take start up time to determine right balance. Commitment to be as
efficient as possible. Many of issues are not simple or straightforward and it will require partner
time. Process in place whereby on call to be informed on non-billing basis.
- How would you describe knowledge of ICANN and how would you get better understanding?
--> Quick-learner – have people with real expertise in area.
--> Worked on internet law issues. ICANN has featured prominently. Dealt with domain name dispute,
country level, complicated jurisdictional issues over root zone services. Practice involves dealing
with world's largest technology, software companies. Former General Counsel for Department of
Commerce has just joined us and has clear knowledge of NTIA perspective on contract with ICANN,
political state of play, legal side of operations and importance of IANA functions. Realistic
founded knowledge of ICANN and Internet. We have associate who lectured on cyber at Harvard.
--> Knowledge going back to inception and prior to that. Chaired subcommittee that has oversight and
jurisdiction for NTIA. In 2009, IANA contract was awarded to ICANN and subcommittee conducted a
whole set of hearings. At the time, a lot of developing countries were urging ITU to get a role.
Passed a resolution that received rare unanimous consensus that internet remain under governance of
multistakeholder process and ITU not be involved. Long acquaintance of ICANN – understand functions
very well as well a counter forces at play. Can help advising on that to optimize opportunity for
Congress to accept.
--> Worked in communications law – migrated from broadcasting to telecommunications to
representations of ISPs. As general counsel, established the internet policy task force which
combined NTIA with other agency that dealt with digital economy and multistakeholder model
policy-making. As general counsel, had legal team provide services to NTIA. Knowledge also includes
renewal of IANA functions contract to issues surrounding top level domain names, broader issues of
internet governance etc. Wrote paper about defending transition – aware of post policy issues of
importance to an effective transition.
--> More clarity is needed on timeframe for making decision. Ability to work effectively depends on
time between decision and Istanbul.
- Debrief call will be organized with legal sub team. Will get more clarity on timeline by the end
of this week.
ACTION ITEM: Provide more clarity on timeline as soon as possible.
- If there is a decision, staff could complete engagement letter fairly quickly using similar
language to CWG letter.
--> Simple if same approach.
--> Agreement needed between CWG and CCWG that comfortable with process.
--> We would need CWG consent.
- Doubt CWG would refuse but will verify.
ACTION ITEM: Verify CWG would have no objection if CCWG deduces to engage with same firm.
Next call: Friday, 13 March 00:00 UTC
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