[CCWG-ACCT] Meeting with CCWG Advisors

Tue Mar 24 00:58:43 UTC 2015

+1 to Greg’s comments, here is nt the time nor the place to try and overhaul independent financial auditing, if there is something relevant to the CCWG that needs to be addressed fine but I don’t think that this is something that we need to spend cycles on, we have little time as it is without distracting ourselves.

On 23 Mar 2015, at 23:31, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>> wrote:

The financial auditing process is a highly-defined and regulated process.  A number of reforms were introduced after Enron, to avoid more Enrons.  Within the definition and restrictions of what a financial audit is, I think we can assume that BDO is doing an appropriate, professional job.  BDO will follow the same "playbook" no matter who the client is.  I don't think it's fruitful for this group to pursue global reforms of the financial audit process, so I suggest we not pursue inquiries that assume the process is per se corrupt.  I also don't think it's fruitful to redesign the standard financial audit.  That said, there's probably valid accountability questions along the lines of "How does the community gain transparency and insight into the audit process?" "Are the current methods for doing so sufficient?

More interesting, and really a different inquiry is the "audit" proposed by Paul and alluded to by Kieren, which for the sake of clarity we probably shouldn't call an "audit" at all (since that's what brought this thread into the weeds in the first place).  I'm not sure if there's a proper term for it.  I'll just call it the "deep dive."

What would this deep dive consist of?

Is it limited to financial matters?

What are we hoping to look at?

What powers are part of this deep dive?  (Note: I think financial auditors don't really have any "power" -- they can raise red flags and make recommendations, but they can't force the client to eat its spinach.  I think the worst they can do is walk away.  But this is not really my field, so I might be wrong about that.)

How does it differ from the ATRT reviews?

Just a few thoughts....

Greg

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 4:32 PM, <carriedev at gmail.com<mailto:carriedev at gmail.com>> wrote:
The independent auditor does not work for free. You made my point. They work for the entity paying them. Hence, if you are working for the entity paying you then you are not independent, you are a contractor.

FYI, I caught this article. How odd swifts people get the special access?
http://www.adweek.com/prnewser/taylor-swift-bought-up-all-your-dot-porn-urls/111297?utm_content=post5-title&utm_source=prnewser&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=dailynewsletter20150323

Carrie
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Sent from my iPad

On Mar 23, 2015, at 9:07 AM, "Paul Rosenzweig" <paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com<mailto:paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com>> wrote:

I agree.  My point (unlike Carrie’s) is not about the independence, but about the lack of depth currently ….

P

Paul Rosenzweig
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From: Seun Ojedeji [mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 8:56 AM
To: Carrie Devorah
Cc: accountability-cross-community at icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>; Paul Rosenzweig
Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Meeting with CCWG Advisors

I beg to differ Carrie, I don't understand the rationale behind your claim that an audit will lack independence (credibility) because ICANN is paying. Please tell me which audit company does free auditing without being paid....most organisations that use external auditors pay them from the same company money and that does not diminish the vl credibility of the report.

I think we may be introducing so much unrealistic examples in this process.

Regards

sent from Google nexus 4
kindly excuse brevity and typos.
On 23 Mar 2015 12:40, "Carrie" <carriedev at gmail.com<mailto:carriedev at gmail.com>> wrote:
The fact that ICANN's Board oversees the audit is a statement that the audit is NOT an independent independent audit. Does ICANN pay for that audit too? I expect they do hence people that pay tend to get the results they seek so from the contractor wanting more work hence the question of the auditing entity, do they do work for Board members and other related affiliates and associations too.

Sincerely
Carrie Devorah
Www.centerforcopyrightintrgrity.com<http://www.centerforcopyrightintrgrity.com/>

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 23, 2015, at 5:46 AM, "Paul Rosenzweig" <paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com<mailto:paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com>> wrote:
Thanks.   I did mean something more, but I appreciate the pointer …
P

Paul Rosenzweig
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From: Samantha Eisner [mailto:Samantha.Eisner at icann.org]
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 5:30 AM
To: Paul Rosenzweig; 'Jordan Carter'; 'Arun Sukumar'
Cc: 'Accountability Cross Community'
Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Meeting with CCWG Advisors

Hi Paul -

I recognize that you may be discussing a different type of audit than a straight audit of financials, but I thought it was of value to point out that ICANN has, for many years, been subject to an audit of its financial records performed by an independent auditor.  Each year’s audited financial statements is available from the ICANN historical financials page at https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/historical-en.  The ICANN Board’s Audit Committee oversees the auditor selection and reporting process.

In addition, to the extent the surplus you raise is then placed into a reserve fund, principles for the management of the operating fund and reserve fund are included within ICANN’s investment policy (https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/investment-policy-2014-07-30-en?routing_type=path), which is regularly reviewed.

Best,

Sam

From: Paul Rosenzweig <paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com<mailto:paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com>>
Date: Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 12:57 PM
To: 'Jordan Carter' <jordan at internetnz.net.nz<mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz>>, 'Arun Sukumar' <arun.sukumar at nludelhi.ac.in<mailto:arun.sukumar at nludelhi.ac.in>>
Cc: 'Accountability Cross Community' <accountability-cross-community at icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Meeting with CCWG Advisors

Dear Jordan

This is a very useful point – one, that I’ve been making in other contexts for a while.  Two things we should consider requiring:

Conduct and publicly release a five-year forensic audit. Before entrusting ICANN with greater autonomy, it should provide evidence that its financial and management decisions have been sound and comport with accepted business practices.

Conduct an annual outside audit. ICANN should be required to contract with an internationally recognized auditing firm (such as Deloitte, Dettica, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, or KPMG) to conduct and publicly release an annual audit of the organizations. The costs should be paid by ICANN and the new IANA consortium and the auditing firm should be eligible only if it does not have a pre-existing contract with ICANN.

One other point:  If, as seems to be the case, ICANN’s current fee structure creates an excess of income over expenses, thought should be given to requiring a rebate of some sort --- it is not wise for a “non-profit” to routinely run a surplus as that will be an inducement to expand the mission into new areas where the $ can usefully be spent.

Paul

Paul Rosenzweig
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From: Jordan Carter [mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz]
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 9:37 AM
To: Arun Sukumar
Cc: Accountability Cross Community
Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Meeting with CCWG Advisors

Another question which came up in the discussion this afternoon, is the question of "following the money" - what does economic influence translate into in terms of power within ICANN, and how is the CCWG taking account of this?

It's an important question that I am not sure we've spent much time on yet.

bests
Jordan

On 22 March 2015 at 11:34, Arun Sukumar <arun.sukumar at nludelhi.ac.in<mailto:arun.sukumar at nludelhi.ac.in>> wrote:
Valerie D'Costa, an advisor to the CCWG, raised a couple of interesting and important questions on process and substance. I hope this is a faithful reproduction.

On process:

1. What should be the role of advisors? Should they offer advice on the basis of unanimity or "rough consensus", or just provide input independently?

2. Should advisors restrict their role to responding to questions that have been flagged by the CCWG and routed through the chairs? Or should they/ can they flag issues they feel are important - weighed from their expertise.

On substance:

1. How is the accountability process taking stock of the evolving "global internet community", given that it is going to be driven by numbers from the  developing world?

2. Taking off from Q1, is the CCWG evaluating the future capacity of ICANN to be truly representative in the years to come?

arun

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