[CCWG-ACCT] CCWG - Draft Update document

Sat Nov 14 18:47:49 UTC 2015

Good evening:

I have recently read two apparently related documents:

-	summary of the work and Recommendations of the CCWG … 

-	A formal update on the CCWG … during and after ICANN 54 … 

Could someone please explain which text is authoritative. Do I need to comment on mistakes in the 'summary' which are not in the 'formal update' - ?

More generally, may I note that 30+ pages is already quite a stretch for most people. If the forthcoming November 30 document promises to be even longer, then we have a problem.

Regards

CW

PS:	Thankyou - someone - for drawing our attention to the existence of one Justin Bieber, of whom I was not previously aware.
	I trust that he has been advised as to his critical röle in the matter of the governance of ICANN.  ;-)

On 13 Nov 2015, at 20:36, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:

> I didn't realize you were such a big Justin Bieber fan.  My apologies, then.
> 
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well you started the scenario painting in the first place so I had the share of your insult as well. If the same person raise petition through multiple SO/AC and survives the internal processes of those SO/AC to remove their respective individual members then such person deserves the next Ethos award.
> 
> If you think the SO/AC community could be so drunk/distracted by approving/supporting such petition then maybe it's another reason why allowing appointing SO/AC remove her board member is flawed.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Sent from my Asus Zenfone2
> Kindly excuse brevity and typos.
> 
> On 13 Nov 2015 19:53, "Greg Shatan" <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps you want the role to be restricted to leaders of SO/AC so Greg as the president of IPC can be the only one within IPC to raise such petition. Sorry that won't be implementing the concept of MS and I thought you do value that.
> 
> I did not in any way express or imply such an absurd thing, and I'm rather insulted that you would even raise the possibility.  Perhaps you will find a way to join the few SO/ACs you haven't yet joined, so that you can raise a petition wherever you feel like it, even if the right is restricted.   That seems like a much better plan for world domination, with much less work, than chairing a constituency.
> 
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
> Since you have the understanding below then that is correct and there is noting wrong with that; The petition only becomes recognised as legitimate when the SO/AC owns it.
> 
> I don't see what the issue is in that scenario, an individual (or group of people) raise a need, it goes through the particular SO/AC consideration processes and becomes a formal petition of the concerned SO/AC.
> 
> Perhaps you want the role to be restricted to leaders of SO/AC so Greg as the president of IPC can be the only one within IPC to raise such petition. Sorry that won't be implementing the concept of MS and I thought you do value that.
> 
> Regards
> Sent from my Asus Zenfone2
> Kindly excuse brevity and typos.
> 
> On 13 Nov 2015 19:25, "Greg Shatan" <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't believe Page 18 addresses my concerns.  It says:
> 
> The petition can only be started in the SO or AC that nominated the Director.
> 
> It does not limit who can start that petition.  As such, Justin Bieber could start a petition (or Seun Ojedeji -- oops I see you are are member of NCSG (along with ALAC and the ASO) so you could start a petition almost anywhere regardless of restrictions) in the GNSO to remove Bruce Tonkin (a GNSO-appointed Director).  So, my concern stands.....
> 
> If there's something I'm missing on page 18, please let me know.
> 
> Greg
> 
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sent from my Asus Zenfone2
> Kindly excuse brevity and typos.
> On 13 Nov 2015 18:08, "Greg Shatan" <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > A few quick comments, since that's all there's time for under this plan.  I was only able to review my prior comments against this draft; no time for a full read.
> >
> > 1. Page 11: Petition Process: Is it clear that any individual, regardless of affiliation can begin a petition in any AC/SO for every power? Even removing that AC/SO's appointed director? For example, can Justin Bieber start a petition in the GNSO to remove Bruce Tonkin?  If that is what we agreed to, never mind.  It just strikes me as odd, and I haven't seen it expressed this way before. (I think we used the passive voice before, which did not identify the "actor" or any limitation on their identity or affiliation.)
> >
> SO: Page 18 addresses your fears.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> > 
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Sabine,
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> I think that this is version issue. The version of the document you are referencing is the incorrect one.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Indeed, it was part of the transparency issues mentioned in Dublin and, during the CCWG call #65 we specifically discussed the item (see the slides here : https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56144581/WP2%20Issues%202%20Nov%202015.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1446529282000&api=v2) and acknowledged that there we had received several requests to address this issue in WS2.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Thank you for raising this consistency issue.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Mathieu
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> De : accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org] De la part de Sabine.Meyer at bmwi.bund.de
> >> Envoyé : vendredi 13 novembre 2015 15:01
> >> À : turcotte.bernard at gmail.com
> >> Cc : accountability-cross-community at icann.org
> >> Objet : Re: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG - Draft Update document for CCWG call
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Dear Bernard,
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> thank you for updating and re-sending the draft!
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> To my understanding, the list of WS2 items on p 29 does not yet reflect the current status of discussions if indeed the latest version is the following: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/50823981/AJed%2020151026%20Items%20for%20Consideration%20in%20Work%20Stream%202.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1446576372000&api=v2
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> In that case, “ICANN’s interaction with governments” is currently not part of the draft.
> >>
> >> Thank you for considering this.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Sabine Meyer
> >>
> >> International Digital and Postal Policy, Internet Governance
> >>
> >> Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy
> >>
> >> Villemombler Strasse 76, 53123 Bonn
> >>
> >> GERMANY
> >>
> >> Phone: +49 228 99615-2948
> >>
> >> Fax: + 49 228 99615-2964
> >>
> >> E-Mail: sabine.meyer at bmwi.bund.de
> >>
> >> Internet: http://www.bmwi.de
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Von: accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org] Im Auftrag von Bernard Turcotte
> >> Gesendet: Freitag, 13. November 2015 00:04
> >> An: Accountability Cross Community
> >> Betreff: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG - Draft Update document for CCWG call
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> As per Mathieu's email of earlier today please find the draft Proposal Update document which will be discussed at the next CCWG meeting.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> The document is going to professional formatting as we speak - so any issues of layout, fonts etc. will be addressed by a specialist.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> This document also represents a consideration of all the comments received with respect to the previous version - not that all of these were accepted, but a majority were taken on.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> We apologize for the lateness of the document, but as you will notice we have put significant efforts into recasting this per the comments.
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> Bernard Turcotte
> >>
> >> ICANN Staff Support for the CCWG
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >> for the CCWG Co-chairs.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
> >> Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
> >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
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