[CCWG-ACCT] Continued Counsel Dialogue

[Seun Ojedeji]

Hi Avri,

I think it needs to be clear that the community can only ASK board to do
things, whether they would do it is entirely at the discretion of the
board. This is normal for membership setup as the community has no
executive status to implement.

That said, I am in full agreement with trying to resolve things locally as
much as possible and if you ask me, I don't think membership will encourage
that approach. Going to court to enforce would be more closer in the
escalation process than we may be thinking.

Regards
Sent from my Asus Zenfone2
Kindly excuse brevity and typos.
On 2 Oct 2015 23:50, "Avri Doria" <avri at acm.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Ultimately yes, they can all end up in court.
>
> The critical issue in my mind is how many steps we can take inside the
> organizations process to remedy before having to resort to the ultimate
> nastyness - appearing before a judge. I think each trip to court is a
> failure to be avoided.  Our model needs to deal properly with shared
> decision making while allowing for problem resolution in a way that
> avoids such failures.
>
> avri
>
>
> On 02-Oct-15 18:21, Chris Disspain wrote:
> > I don’t disagree with you Avri but isn’t going to court the ultimate
> > enforceability in any of the models/ideas we have been discussing?
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >> On 2 Oct 2015, at 21:07 , Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
> >> <mailto:avri at acm.org>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Within ICANN, it rests with the Board.
> >>
> >> I resist the idea of including going to court as a normal part of our
> >> process.  I have argued all the way through this process, that going to
> >> court is something to be avoided and something we should not consider to
> >> be part of the process.  Yes at the end of the day it needs to be
> >> possible, but it is a failure indication.
> >>
> >> avri
> >>
> >>
> >> On 02-Oct-15 06:57, Chris Disspain wrote:
> >>> No Avri. At the end of the day it rests with the court as I believe is
> >>> clear from the note from JD.
> >>>
> >>> After a finding by an arbitration panel that a bylaw has been
> >>> breached, it is a matter for the Board about how they remedy (as I
> >>> believe is the case with the member model also) and that remedy is
> >>> itself subject to a claim that it breaches a bylaw (if the community
> >>> has consensus). If the Board refuses to abide by the ruling then a
> >>> court can order them to do so.
> >>>
> >>> Have I misunderstood the way the member model works. I believe Becky
> >>> has said numerous times that the only finding could be that the
> >>> relevant bylaw has been breached, NOT that the Board must take a
> >>> specific action. Is that wrong?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 2 Oct 2015, at 20:46 , Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
> >>>> <mailto:avri at acm.org>
> >>>> <mailto:avri at acm.org>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> That was one of my favorite lines as well.
> >>>>
> >>>> And is a key point.  In the current model, and as far as I can tell in
> >>>> the MEM, at the end of the day, all always rests "within the Board's
> >>>> discretion."
> >>>>
> >>>> avri
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 02-Oct-15 05:29, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:
> >>>>> I really LOVE this one:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [...]
> >>>>> "the Board is required to remedy that violation, within the
> >>>>> Board’s discretion."
> >>>>> [...]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (last line on Page 1)
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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