[CCWG-ACCT] [ccnso-members] Re: [ccTLDcommunity] ICANN Statement Regarding IANA Intellectual Property Rights

Rudolph Daniel rudi.daniel at gmail.com
Fri Sep 11 15:11:06 UTC 2015 

I fundamentally and strongly agree with Nigel on this....I cannot agree
with Peter's rather troublesome scenario.
RD
On Aug 18, 2015 3:06 PM, "Nigel Roberts" <nigel at channelisles.net> wrote:

> And THAT is the difference between mechanismes that a civilian lawyer
> would propose compared with common layers (like me).
>
> The point is if this is done by contractual obligation, well, no one HAS
> to comply with a contractual obligation.  You can refuse. (Someone did it
> do me just today). THEN you have to sue. It can drag on. All the while the
> true IANA is kept out of their name.
>
> But if the property ownership is located with a trusted third party, and
> the licence comes to an end (say by a change of IANA function manager),
> then no enforcement is needed -- the property results to its beneficial
> owner automatically who can relicence it.
>
> Similar aims, different processes.
>
> I know which I prefer.
>
> On 18/08/15 19:57, Peter Vergote wrote:
>
>> Nigel and all,
>>
>> I think that ICANN could continue to be the owner of the mentioned domain
>> names upon condition that there is a clear and unambiguous contractual
>> commitment that the ownership of those domain names will be transferred to
>> the new IANA Functions Operator in the event that this would no longer be
>> ICANN.
>>
>> In practice you achieve pretty much the same as with your suggestion with
>> a trusted third party but I think the above is probably easier to implement.
>>
>> The same should apply for all trademarks relating to IANA and currently
>> in ownership by ICANN.
>>
>> For the record, when we are talking about IP rights, we are in fact
>> referring to the trademarks and alikes. Domain name registrations are not
>> IP rights it’s more or less a form of possession but in legal nature not an
>> IP right. Domain names can be claimed back through UDRP on the basis of a
>> matching IP right e.g. a trademark.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> Peter Vergote
>> Legal & Corp. Affairs Manager
>> +32 16 29 89 28
>> +32 474 790096
>> www.dnsbelgium.be <http://www.dnsbelgium.be/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18/08/15 19:41, "Nigel Roberts" <nigel at channelisles.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> You are right and for that reason ICANN must not have the IP rights to
>>> the IANA.ORG domain name, or indeed unfettered control (as this
>>> discussion implies.
>>>
>>> Insteadm it must have a licence allowing it to be used day-to-day *BY*
>>> ICANN, as long as it is the IANA contractor. It must have de-facto
>>> day-to-day operational control. But that's it.
>>>
>>> Therefore the Registrant of IANA.ORG needs to become a trusted third
>>> party that holds the registration ON TRUST (in the legal sense) for the
>>> beneficial owner (call that RightsCo if you like), who provides an
>>> unlimited-use license to ICANN (or any other company that might get the
>>> IANA contract in the future) under the terms of its carrying out the
>>> IANA function.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18/08/15 17:20, Steve Crocker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Becky,
>>>>
>>>> Not quite right.  I believe there are three trademarks, but far more
>>>> important than the trademarks is the control of the iana.org domain
>>>> name.  Despite the thousands of words of email devoted to the trademarks,
>>>> in the case of IANA they’re of only modest, at best, practical importance.
>>>> The domain name, however, is a key piece of the operation.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 18, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Burr, Becky <Becky.Burr at neustar.biz>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think that the IP rights in question are limited to the IANA
>>>>> trademark,
>>>>> which the USG transferred to ICANN in 1999 or so.
>>>>>
>>>>> J. Beckwith Burr
>>>>> Neustar, Inc. / Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
>>>>> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006
>>>>> Office: + 1.202.533.2932  Mobile:  +1.202.352.6367  /
>>>>> becky.burr at neustar.biz / www.neustar.biz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/18/15, 3:11 AM, "Dr Eberhard Lisse" <el at lisse.NA> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Gabi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thank you for posting this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to place on record, that this needs SIGNIFICANT thought, and
>>>>>> considerably more detail than what is provided here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In particular what actual Intellectual Property Rights do they mean,
>>>>>> EXACTLY? And I would like to see them in a numbered list :-)-O
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most certainly will the root zone (database) on which the NSF is
>>>>>> performed, and the contacts database (DEF) NOT fall under this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Without having thought this through to the end, however, I think this
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a WS1 item for the CCWG Accountability, and needs to be dsicussed on
>>>>>> tonight's call.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately, we have time, the transition has been postponed to
>>>>>> 2016-09-30 last Friday
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ntia.doc.gov_blog_
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2015_update-2Diana-2Dtransition&d=AwICAg&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFO
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=xEvMoIyL67gEqHJRspVNVH_5RfpEaBO3-n
>>>>>> jFirHo3sc&s=anSaVt_Y73vPTokKGDZODQOgEpcSMCQYfov_F17TFqo&e=
>>>>>>
>>>>>> greetings, el
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-08-18 09:16, Gabriella Schittek wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ICANN has released a statement regarding the IANA Intellectual
>>>>>>> Property
>>>>>>> Rights:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>> ICANN Statement Regarding IANA Intellectual Property Rights (IPR)15
>>>>>>> August 2015
>>>>>>> ICANN supports the IANA Stewardship Transition Group (ICG) proposal
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> the underlying proposals from the Community Working Group (CWG), the
>>>>>>> Consolidated RIR IANA Stewardship Proposal (CRISP) team and the
>>>>>>> Planning
>>>>>>> for the IANA/NTIA Transition (IANAPLAN) working group.
>>>>>>> The ICANN Board is focused on how to implement the Intellectual
>>>>>>> Property
>>>>>>> Rights (IPR) component of the proposal. The Board believes that for
>>>>>>> stability and pragmatic operational reasons, the IANA Functions
>>>>>>> Operator
>>>>>>> must have operational control over the IANA.ORG
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__iana.org_&d=AwICAg&c
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=x
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> EvMoIyL67gEqHJRspVNVH_5RfpEaBO3-njFirHo3sc&s=4i-xg4Yjhd2u-vOhYZeKXLv1fPbl
>>>>>>> EqzcJUU3MkUOa58&e= > domain.
>>>>>>> During the transition, ICANN is prepared to transfer full ownership
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the IANA-related trademarks to a neutral third party mutually agreed
>>>>>>> among the operational communities with the understanding that ICANN,
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> the current IANA Functions Operator, will be granted license to those
>>>>>>> trademarks and ICANN will maintain operational control of the
>>>>>>> IANA.ORG
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__iana.org_&d=AwICAg&c
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=x
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> EvMoIyL67gEqHJRspVNVH_5RfpEaBO3-njFirHo3sc&s=4i-xg4Yjhd2u-vOhYZeKXLv1fPbl
>>>>>>> EqzcJUU3MkUOa58&e= > domain for as long as ICANN remains the IANA
>>>>>>> Functions Operator.
>>>>>>> If the transfer during the transition affects the timeline, we advise
>>>>>>> delay until after the transition. In that event ICANN is ready to
>>>>>>> hold
>>>>>>> the IPR as interim measure but commits to transfer it within 120 days
>>>>>>> after the neutral third party is identified by the operational
>>>>>>> communities.
>>>>>>> We believe this is neutral and in the public interest. We look
>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>> to hearing from anyone in the community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_news_a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nnouncement-2D2015-2D08-2D15-2Den&d=AwICAg&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62c
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=xEvMoIyL67gEqHJRspVNVH_5RfpEaB
>>>>>>> O3-njFirHo3sc&s=kkb9yxPPFQICrdDt6_by0xp5V6I-9OPO6Ap5eKlTttQ&e=
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gabi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> ccTLDcommunity mailing list
>>>>>>> ccTLDcommunity at cctld-managers.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lists.cctld-2Dman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> agers.org_mailman_listinfo_cctldcommunity&d=AwICAg&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lUL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> rw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=xEvMoIyL67gEqHJRspVNVH
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe please send a blank email to
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse  \        / Obstetrician & Gynaecologist (Saar)
>>>>>> el at lisse.NA            / *     |   Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell)
>>>>>> PO Box 8421             \     /
>>>>>> Bachbrecht, Namibia     ;____/
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> ccTLDcommunity mailing list
>>>>>> ccTLDcommunity at cctld-managers.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lists.cctld-2Dmana
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gers.org_mailman_listinfo_cctldcommunity&d=AwICAg&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw
>>>>>>
>>>>>> &r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=xEvMoIyL67gEqHJRspVNVH_5R
>>>>>> fpEaBO3-njFirHo3sc&s=hj0Oa8KWrcB67Gt8uRpbH-r3gLgTrpp6HraDXEfJoYU&e=
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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