[CCWG-ACCT] Summary of proposals discussed last night in context of Rec. #11

Kavouss Arasteh kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
Wed Feb 3 08:13:47 UTC 2016


*1. REPLY TO MIKE*
Dear Mr. Chartier
( you called me Mr. Arasteh then I have to do and apply the same rule
calling you Mr. Chartier9
Thanky you for your message

You said at the begining of your message the following

*Quote*

*"Dear Mr. Arasteh,*
*I understand where you are coming from."*
Unquote
Unfortunately this is  not a friendly question and perhaps offensive ,if
not insultation
I never ever asked and even know where are you come from.This is not my
business not business of CCWG .
I  FULLY RESPECT EVERY AND ALL NATIONS AND SIMILARLY EVERY DISTINGUISHED
COLLEAGUES NO MATTER WHERE THEY COME FROM, AND WHAT AFFILIATION THEY HAVE .
The purpose of the CCWG is not raising the question of or statement
relating to nationaly , race, colour, religeion, conviction ,political
adherance and so on.
We are just a group of freinds ,colleagues ,getting together and
collaborating with each other to contribute to the ICANN accountability.
Therefore, I consider, your question was not only hostile, offensive but
totally irrelevant and I  therefore respectfully request you to kindly
refrain to make such an unfriendly and non ethical statement
I think every one of us must respect each other and evenif disagree with
one other observe mutual respect and spirit of ICANN code of conduct .

As for the substance of your views on the alternatives 7 options , I fully
respect your views as I respects views of others.
I think every one of us must

*2. Reply to Grec*
*Thank you  for your message*
*You said the following:*
*Quote:*

*"Furthermore, I would note that the proposal, although originally made by
Kavouss in a long and multi-branched email string, received no attention
until I placed it in an entirely new email and brought it to the specific
attention of the CCWG.  It was my email that initiated discussion of the
60% proposal.  Therefore, I think it should more appropriately be called my
proposal in any event.  I graciously allowed it to be called "Kavouss's
proposal"; however, based on the facts, that is clearly a misnomer, since
the work of the group is based on my email.  I would therefore request that
the 60% proposal henceforth be called "Greg's Proposal."*
*Unquote*
*Dear Grec*
*What you have stated does not reflect the reality.Befroe I started  my
e-mails ,painted by you as **multi-branched email string, I raised the
issue in a CCWG CALL..havind said that , in my view , it does not matter
who proposed the option, I am just interested in the proposal and not the
author of the proposal.*
*Thank you for your generosity to allow that the proposal be called my
proposal ,But I have withdrawn my proposal therefroe your gracious action
and generosity is no longer relevant as I HAVE NO PROPOSAL.*
*FR ME DOESN^T MATTER IF TAKEN UP BY SOMEBODY LIKE YOU AND  BECALLED "GREC
PROPOSAL"*
Having said that, I respectfully  request you to kindly refrain to make
such an unfriendly and non ethical statement
I think every one of us must respect each other and evenif disagree with
one other observe mutual respect and spirit of ICANN code of conduct .
Now let us back to work
Regards
Kavouss





2016-02-03 7:03 GMT+01:00 Nigel Roberts <nigel at channelisles.net>:

> Kavouss
>
> Thank you for using a blank line between paragraphs in your latest email.
>
> I didn't want to say anything before about this, because I didn't want to
> seem rude or pedantic; nonetheless it really does make your emails much
> easier to read.
>
> I'd appreciate it if you continue!
>
> Thanks again
>
>
> On 02/02/16 23:20, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:
>
>> Dear CCWG members and participants
>>
>> Dear GAC Members
>>
>> At CCWG call 81 ,in discussing REC.11 Annex 11 there was two
>> alternatives for rejection of GAC Advice by the Board
>>
>>  1.
>>
>>     2/3 Majority
>>
>>  2.
>>
>>     Simple MAJORITY
>>
>> Since there was a lengthy discussion, I proposed a compromise of 60%
>> instead of THRESHOLD IN 1) and 2) above WITHOUT TOUCHING ANY ELEMENT OF
>> rec.1 which was accepted by consensus
>>
>> Someone talked about a creative action and proposed to retain 2/3
>> Majority in Rec.11 .Annex 11 but modify REC 1 by adding a phrase at
>> paragraph 23 of that Rec , if I am not mistaken.
>>
>> That proposal was made by Beckie .
>>
>> These two proposal were on the table without being mutually inclusive
>>
>> Today I observed that people not only wants to Modify Rec 1 ; disabling
>> GAC to exercise its community power not to be counted as one of the TWO
>> SO/AC IN CASE other part of comity invoke IRP in regard with ICANN
>> action relating to GAC Advice alleged to exceed ICANN Mission while
>> maintaining 2/3 majority in Rec 11 BUT ALSO LOWERING THAT THRESHOLD TO 60%
>>
>> This combination is inconsistent with my proposal
>>
>> Moreover such course of action has not formally been approved, even if
>> unilaterally suggested by some people at the meeting and thus such
>> amended proposal was not formally given to Beckie Group to discuss .
>>
>> Since the proponent of amended BECKIE PROPOSAL insisting on his views,
>>
>> *_I have formally withdrawn my initial 60% threshold proposal_*and
>> stated that _apart from Beckie initial proposal_, *no other alternative
>> proposal could discussed at Beckie’s group without the approval of CCWG*
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Kavouss .
>>
>>
>> 2016-02-02 23:58 GMT+01:00 Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
>> <mailto:kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>>:
>>
>>     PAUL
>>     There is no evidence that such decision was made by consensus
>>     People might have said many thing
>>     You can not just referring to unilateral statement in transcsript
>>     and take it as a consensus proposal
>>     Pls transcript is transcrip those people who have spoken must
>>     understand that there is no valuse on unilateral decision .We are
>>     member of a group any  decision for study must be AGREED BY EVERY BODY
>>     Regards
>>
>>
>>     2016-02-02 23:54 GMT+01:00 Paul Rosenzweig
>>     <paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com
>>     <mailto:paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com>>:
>>
>>         Kavouss
>>
>>         You are wrong.  I read the transcript.
>>
>>         Sorry
>>         Paul
>>
>>         --
>>         Paul Rosenzweig
>>         Sent from myMail app for Android
>>
>>         Tuesday, 02 February 2016, 05:53PM -05:00 from Kavouss Arasteh
>>         <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>>:
>>
>>
>>             Dear Paul
>>
>>             I am very sorry to tell you that:
>>
>>             Our mandate is limited to discuss the initial Becky’s
>>             proposal and mine only
>>
>>             Since I withdrew mine, if you want to make a new proposal
>>             that must be submitted to the next meeting of CCWG on 09
>>             Feb. 2016
>>
>>             This group is not a test LAB for multiple number on proposal
>>             otherwise we will not end our work till 2017.
>>
>>             You can offer your proposal to the next CCWG MEETING
>>
>>             If agreed by consensus it will be discussed
>>
>>             Best Regards
>>
>>
>>             2016-02-02 23:46 GMT+01:00 Paul Rosenzweig
>>             <paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com
>>             <
>> https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3apaul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com
>> >>:
>>
>>                 That's ok.  If process requires I will advance the
>>                 Aratesh/Burr proposal under my own name.  😊
>>
>>                 --
>>                 Paul Rosenzweig
>>                 Sent from myMail app for Android
>>
>>                 Tuesday, 02 February 2016, 05:42PM -05:00 from Kavouss
>>                 Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
>>                 <
>> https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3akavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>>:
>>
>>
>>                     Dear Becky
>>                     Pls take out my proposal from the Table
>>                     I formally withdraw  MY PROPOSAL
>>                     Tks Kavouss
>>
>>                     2016-02-02 23:34 GMT+01:00 Kavouss Arasteh
>>                     <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
>>                     <
>> https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3akavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>>:
>>
>>
>>                         Becky
>>                         Your proposal did not have such statement
>>                         Your proposal was clearly mentioned retaining
>>                         2/3 and modifying Rec1 to have an overall
>>                         acceptance.
>>                         This will cause considerable poblem and create
>>                         serious of open-ended argument
>>                         My question to you was to clarify that your
>>                         question did not refer toeither 60% or simple
>>                         majority . Let us go back to the discussions on
>>                         call 81 There was two alternative mentioned by
>>                         Steve ,
>>                         - 2/3
>>                         SIMPLE MAJORITY
>>                         I proposed a middfle ground 60%
>>                         You then proposed that
>>                         1.MOD. Rec 1  in disabling GAC  not to
>>                         participate in ommunity empowering exercise when
>>                         IRP is invoked by community for Board's actions
>>                         exceeding its Mission and
>>                         2. Retain 2/3 as contained in Rec 11 Annex 11
>>                         YOU NOW CHANGING YOUR PROPOSAL
>>                         IT IS NOT ADMITTED. We agreed to work on your
>>                         initial proposal and mine
>>                         Now you implictly changing your proposal
>>                         Disagree TO THAT course of action
>>                         I case you insist I WILL IMMEDIATELY WITHDRAW MY
>>                         PROPOSAL AND THEN WE GO BACK TO ccwg and
>>                         rediscuss REC 11
>>                         Please kindly clarify your position
>>                         Once again if there would be any link between
>>                         your proposal and 60% Please remove my proposal
>>                         from the Table and go ahead with your own
>>                         proposal only
>>                         I also disagree with any new proposal .We can
>>                         not discuss for days and day for receiving
>>                         creative proposal
>>                         Let us be realistic rather than creative.
>>                         Best Regards
>>                         Kavouss
>>
>>                         2016-02-02 23:24 GMT+01:00 Kavouss Arasteh
>>                         <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
>>                         <
>> https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3akavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>>:
>>
>>
>>                             Becky
>>                             Your proposal did not have such statement
>>                             Your proposal was clearly mentioned
>>                             retaining 2/3 and modifying Rec1 to have an
>>                             overall acceptance.
>>                             This will cause considerable poblem and
>>                             create serious of open-ended argument
>>                             My question to you was to clarify that your
>>                             question did not refer toeither 60% or
>>                             simple majority . Let us go back to the
>>                             discussions on call 81 There was two
>>                             alternative mentioned by Steve ,
>>                             - 2/3
>>                             SIMPLE MAJORITY
>>                             I proposed a middfle ground 60%
>>                             You then proposed that
>>                             1.MOD. Rec 1  in disabling GAC  not to
>>                             participate in ommunity empowering exercise
>>                             when IRP is invoked by community for Board's
>>                             actions exceeding its Mission and
>>                             2. Retain 2/3 as contained in Rec 11 Annex 11
>>                             YOU NOW CHANGING YOUR PROPOSAL
>>                             iT IS NOT ADMITTED. We agreed to work on
>>                             your initial proposal and mine
>>                             Now you implictly changing your proposal
>>                             Disagreed
>>                             Regards
>>                             Kavouss
>>
>>
>>
>>                             2016-02-02 23:10 GMT+01:00 Burr, Becky
>>                             <Becky.Burr at neustar.biz
>>                             <
>> https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3aBecky.Burr@neustar.biz>>:
>>
>>                                 UPDATED:
>>
>>                                 I have attempted to set out the
>>                                 proposals discussed last night. ____
>>
>>                                 ___ ___
>>
>>                                 _Aresteh Proposal_:____
>>
>>                                 Modify Rec. #11/ Annex 11 to provide
>>                                 that GAC Advice supported by consensus,
>>                                 defined as general agreement in the
>>                                 absence of a formal objection, may be
>>                                 rejected only by a vote of at least
>>                                 *60%* of the Board.  All other
>>                                 requirements (e.g., rationale to be
>>                                 provided, etc.) unchanged. This proposal
>>                                 is strictly limited to Recommendation 11
>>                                 Annex 11 without any change to
>>                                 Recommendation 1 as it stands on 02
>>                                 February 2016.____
>>
>>                                 _Hutty Gloss on 60% Threshold_:  Add
>>                                 language to ensure that supermajority
>>                                 requirement creates no new expectation
>>                                 of approval or otherwise modify the
>>                                 Board’s standard of review of GAC
>>                                 Advice. ____
>>
>>                                 _Burr Proposal_:____
>>
>>                                 ·Modify Rec #1/Annex 1:  Add the
>>                                 following to the end of Paragraph 23. ____
>>
>>                                 /The GAC may not, however, participate
>>                                 as a decision maker in the Empowered
>>                                 Community’s consideration of the
>>                                 exercise a community power for the
>>                                 purpose of challenging or blocking the
>>                                 Board’s implementation of GAC Advice. In
>>                                 such cases, the GAC remains free to
>>                                 participate in community deliberations
>>                                 in an advisory capacity, but its views
>>                                 will not count towards or against
>>                                 otherwise agreed thresholds needed to
>>                                 initiate a conference call, convene a
>>                                 Community Forum, or exercise a specific
>>                                 Community Power.  This carve out
>>                                 preserves the ICANN Board’s unique
>>                                 obligation to work with the GAC try to
>>                                 find a mutually acceptable solution to
>>                                 implementation of GAC Advice supported
>>                                 by consensus (as defined in Rec. #11)
>>                                 while protecting the community’s power
>>                                 to challenge such Board decisions.____/
>>
>>                                 //
>>
>>                                 ·Modify the Table in Rec. #2/Annex 2 to
>>                                 reflect this carve out and add the
>>                                 following language to cover situations
>>                                 that would otherwise require the support
>>                                 of four SOs or ACs:/____/
>>
>>                                 /The CCWG-Accountability also recommends
>>                                 that in a situation where the GAC may
>>                                 not participate as a Decisional AC
>>                                 because the community power is proposed
>>                                 to be used to challenge the Board’s
>>                                 implementation of GAC Advice and the
>>                                 threshold is set at four in support, the
>>                                 power will still be validly exercised if
>>                                 three are in support and no more than
>>                                 one objects. ____/
>>
>>
>>                                 Kavouss has asked whether my proposal is
>>                                 paired to a 66% threshold, 60% threshold
>>                                 or simple majority for rejecting GAC
>>                                 Advice.  It is not inconsistent with any
>>                                 of those outcomes.
>>
>>                                 *J. Beckwith Burr****
>>                                 **Neustar, Inc.***/**Deputy General
>>                                 Counsel & Chief Privacy Officer
>>                                 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington
>>                                 D.C. 20006
>>                                 *Office:***+1.202.533.2932
>>                                 *Mobile:***+1.202.352.6367
>>                                 */**neustar.biz*
>>                                 <http://www.neustar.biz>____
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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