[CCWG-ACCT] Follow-up from the Word Internet Conference in China

Dr Eberhard W Lisse el at lisse.na
Fri Jan 1 21:02:25 UTC 2016 

Can you please explain the significance and context to us lesser mortals?

el

-- 
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini

> On 1 Jan 2016, at 22:35, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:
> 
> FYI
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-gosset/digital-china-and-its-imp_b_8854374.html
> 
> 
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org im Auftrag von Christopher Wilkinson
> Gesendet: Do 31.12.2015 20:54
> An: Accountability Cross Community
> Betreff: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Follow-up from the Word Internet Conference in China
> 
> +1    CW
> 
>> On 31 Dec 2015, at 11:26, Roelof Meijer <Roelof.Meijer at sidn.nl> wrote:
>> 
>> And that, in my opinion, would be the perfect final say on this issue.
>> 
>> Thanks, Sivasubramanian
>> 
>> 
>> Roelof Meijer
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 30-12-15 18:11, "accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org on
>> behalf of Sivasubramanian M"
>> <accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org on behalf of
>> isolatedn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> What is being blown out of proportion here? What did Fadi do? What do
>>> those who criticize think was his rationale for doing what he did?
>>> 
>>> In dealing with a country as large as China, it is wise to defer
>>> differences and emphasize points on which there are agreements. It
>>> requires such an approach to open the door for dialogue, otherwise
>>> decades would pass before we see China or Russia eye to eye.
>>> 
>>> There is a reaction, almost as if orchestrated, that seems to magnify
>>> something perceived to have been done by Fadi Chehade exceeding his
>>> brief, wrongly portrayed as self serving involvement, in complete
>>> disregard for every thing that he did during his term in ICANN's best
>>> interest. If the rationale is unspoken, is it to be misunderstood, so
>>> much so that the Community should forget everything he did for ICANN
>>> and harp on the absence of his vocal opposition to parts of the
>>> Chinese statement and his willingness to serve a committee, which
>>> might in reality turn out to be for the good of the multistakeholder
>>> governance?
>>> 
>>> When someone in a highly responsible position comes under such a
>>> severe attack, often the cause for attack is not what is apparent.
>>> 
>>> I observed from a distance that he wanted to bring about certain wider
>>> changes which would alter the existing order in several ways (other
>>> participants in various roles might know better), appeared to enjoy a
>>> certain degree of freedom to initiate and execute programs in his own
>>> style, for a year or two. He talked about values, he talked about
>>> various imbalances, he showed respect for good people in the Board, he
>>> reached out to the world by taking the initiative to organize an IGF
>>> like multistakeholder event with Government participation which was a
>>> successful event, and went on to further this good work by seeking to
>>> involve the larger Business Community in the intended follow up as the
>>> NetMundial Initiative. He improved participation in GAC, reached out
>>> to Russia and China. There is more that he probably wanted to do. It
>>> was meaningful leadership.
>>> 
>>> I recollect that, at the At-Large summit in London, he said "It is
>>> time for the interests to move out of ICANN, and for the community to
>>> come in". Sometime later, in Istanbul, he sought to introduce the
>>> concept of ICANN "Townhall" meetings but arrived at the first meeting
>>> severely discouraged (or so I thought). It appeared that he was
>>> challenged for including certain public iana/accountability comments
>>> in staff summary. Shortly afterwards, he was challenged in his
>>> initiative to appoint External Advisors on ICANN Accountability, was
>>> criticized on the process he was to adopt, and the process went
>>> through some changes as a result; he was challenged in many other ways
>>> whilst performing his role to its fullest actualization. The highest
>>> of the orchestrated opposition was to the progress of NetMundial.
>>> 
>>> All these, for different reasons, threatened an existing order. Any
>>> reform that has been brought about (by the Board and Fadi's team
>>> together) is not even close to being even half done, because and only
>>> because, the pressure against change must have been overwhelming.
>>> 
>>> Must have been severely stressful. A case of a CEO not empowered
>>> enough to survive an overwhelmingly powerful community.
>>> 
>>> Sivasubramanian M
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 8:05 PM, Carlos Raul Gutierrez <crg at isoc-cr.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Thank you Milton!
>>>> 
>>>> Very good article from my perspective, but still it is difficult to
>>>> define
>>>> how and at what level it is best to engage with your main (internet)
>>>> equipment supplier.....
>>>> 
>>>> Have a nice "rutsch" into the new year.
>>>> 
>>>> Carlos
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2015 5:49 AM, "Mueller, Milton L" <milton at gatech.edu> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here¹s my view of ICANN and Fadi¹s support for the Chinese Wuzhen
>>>>> Internet
>>>>> Conference. (Spoiler: it¹s not about Fadi)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.internetgovernance.org/2015/12/29/the-chinese-netmundial-init
>>>>> iative/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
>>>>> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Carlos Raul
>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 10:35 AM
>>>>> To: Roelof Meijer <Roelof.Meijer at sidn.nl>
>>>>> Cc: Accountability Cross Community
>>>>> <accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Follow-up from the Word Internet Conference in
>>>>> China
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> @Roelof +1 on the last comment. Having somebody as bright as Fadi but
>>>>> choking his efforts to follow up on the IMHO GREAT results of the Net
>>>>> Mundial meeting in Brazil, has been the main explanation to me on why
>>>>> he is
>>>>> leaving.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For those critical of his entrepreneurship they may consider NOT hiring
>>>>> private sector CEOs in the future, but "secretary general" type of
>>>>> management that just follow up orders.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Happy holidays
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carlos Raul
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 28, 2015 9:05 AM, "Roelof Meijer" <Roelof.Meijer at sidn.nl> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Might be the reason why someone like Fadi is actually NOT working for
>>>>> you...
>>>>> 
>>>>> And no, I do not agree at all that this is a "great example of lack of
>>>>> accountability"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roelof Meijer
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 26-12-15 13:19, "accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org on
>>>>> behalf of Nigel Roberts"
>>>>> <accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> on behalf of nigel at channelisles.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If Fadi worked for me, then his leaving date would just have been
>>>>>> brought forward dramatically, and he would have, as we say in the UK,
>>>>>> found a number of pressing reasons to spend more time with the family.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But the Board don't collectively have the cojones to do that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That's not really a criticism of the institution or the current
>>>>> members
>>>>>> of it, just a recognition of how much power that the Board of
>>>>>> non-profits (don't) have over their General Manager (as I saw over 20
>>>>>> years ago as a board member of the Radio Society of Great Britain,
>>>>> which
>>>>>> despite being an office I could trace back in history to a certain Sr.
>>>>>> Marconi, had exactly the same level of power(lessness) than the ICANN
>>>>>> Board has, in some aspects).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Indeed, were I an ICANN Board member I might take that view -- in that
>>>>>> the damage to the organisation from further inflaming the situation
>>>>>> might be greater than just crossing my fingers and waiting for the
>>>>>> problem to go away naturally in the Spring.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> However, it's a great example of lack of accountability, wouldn't you
>>>>>> agree?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 25/12/15 15:33, Paul Rosenzweig wrote:
>>>>>>> We must live in a bit of a different world, I think. Where I come
>>>>> from,
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> public official (and let's not kid ourselves -- that is what Fadi
>>>>> is)
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> did what Fadi did would be subject to discipline if not removal.
>>>>> While
>>>>>>> acting in a public role, the official has no private capacity --
>>>>> none
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> all.  At least in the world I inhabit that prohibition is so
>>>>> stringent
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> it applies even to actions that would be (under any reasonable
>>>>> test) so
>>>>>>> clearly distinct that the likelihood of confusing the public role
>>>>> with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> private role was virtually non-existent.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For a particularly telling recent example of this, consider this
>>>>> story:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/meet-the-author-of-the-
>>>>>>> rev
>>>>>>> ena
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> nt--except-you-cant-because-of-his-federal-job/2015/12/22/32d632fe-a5c
>>>>>>> 5-1
>>>>>>> 1e5
>>>>>>> -ad3f-991ce3374e23_story.html.  A minor Federal official wrote "The
>>>>>>> Revenant" before he joined the government.  Now, the book is a major
>>>>>>> movie
>>>>>>> just released today, starring Leonardo DiCaprio.  In the normal
>>>>> course
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> events, the writer of the book on which the film was based would be
>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>> publicity for the film.  Here, the author cannot -- because he is a
>>>>>>> Deputy
>>>>>>> Trade Representative of the US.  Now, I don't know about you, but
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> me the
>>>>>>> likelihood that people will associate the movie publicity with the
>>>>> USTR
>>>>>>> office and draw an inference of official US government approval is
>>>>>>> vanishingly small -- so on the merits I would say that this is a
>>>>> place
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> the officials private life could diverge from his public
>>>>>>> responsibility.
>>>>>>> But as I said, here we are so cautious about even the appearance of
>>>>>>> impropriety that the author is not doing any public relations for
>>>>> his
>>>>>>> movie.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As others have pointed out for Fadi the possibility of confusion is
>>>>>>> clearly
>>>>>>> much higher -- the press and the public will (and have) linked his
>>>>> new
>>>>>>> "personal capacity" job to his current status as CEO of ICANN --
>>>>> which
>>>>>>> is of
>>>>>>> course exactly why he was hired and exactly what the Chinese wanted.
>>>>>>> Frankly, as Nigel said, I find his behavior troubling and remarkably
>>>>>>> tone
>>>>>>> deaf.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I should add that the purpose of the restriction on trading on your
>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>> position works both ways.  We worry not only about the new "private"
>>>>>>> connection currying favor with public official, we also worry that
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> official may make decisions in his public capacity that are now to
>>>>>>> benefit
>>>>>>> his future private actions rather than the public interest.  It
>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> connection and the cooperation that is troubling (as Eric notes) --
>>>>> it
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> the promise of future employment with unknown benefits that was made
>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>> the public official was still working for the public that raises the
>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Paul Rosenzweig
>>>>>>> paul.rosenzweig at redbranchconsulting.com
>>>>>>> O: +1 (202) 547-0660
>>>>>>> M: +1 (202) 329-9650
>>>>>>> VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739
>>>>>>> Skype: paul.rosenzweig1066
>>>>>>> Link to my PGP Key
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Nigel Roberts [mailto:nigel at channelisles.net]
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2015 5:47 AM
>>>>>>> To: accountability-cross-community at icann.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Follow-up from the Word Internet
>>>>> Conference in
>>>>>>> China
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Are we tending a bit much toward micromanagement of the CEO?  I
>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> never been one of his fans, but this seems a bit much to make an
>>>>> issue
>>>>>>> over.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> avri
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is not just a matter of judgment, but a matter of
>>>>> cross-cultural
>>>>>>> judgment. The CEO gets paid to get this right. And I REALLY expected
>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> from Mr Chehade' in that department
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Actually, I would not have expected this kind of behaviour from
>>>>> recent
>>>>>>> previous CEOs.  Certainly not from Paul.  In fact not even from Rod,
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>  despite his public persona and irritating Hollywood rockstar ways
>>>>>>> was, in
>>>>>>> many was, quite sensitive to non-US cultures!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In China, relationships matter.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Appearance matters. A lot.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Both of those things can be as important, if not more important than
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 'letter of the law' as to whose dime he was on when carrying on the
>>>>>>> discussion with the relevant actors inside China.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The American way (and the British, to a lesser extent) is based on a
>>>>>>> cliteral interpretation of the rules (with a seasoning of
>>>>> 'wiggle-room'
>>>>>>> for peccadilloes).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So while it's understandable to hear from some of you that you don't
>>>>>>> see the
>>>>>>> problem, some of us really, really see a big issue here.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm not going to complain loudly about the ethics side, although I
>>>>>>> personally find it curious that Fadi was there on ICANN's dime, yet
>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>> again making announcements 'in his personal capacity'.  A CEO can
>>>>> never
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> in his personal capacity, in my view until he gets his cardboard
>>>>> box.
>>>>>>> (It was strange how the reporters describe him as ICANN's CEO,
>>>>> though.
>>>>>>> Oh yes, that's because he IS. Even yet.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The issue is that the head of ICANN, voluntarily handed in his
>>>>>>> resignation,
>>>>>>> choosing to leave early, before transition was complete, and in
>>>>> another
>>>>>>> revolving-door shocker joined an organisation with an apparently
>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>> different world view, and chose Wuzhen to make supportive
>>>>> statements of
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> and their backers.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Once again, 'it's not what they say, its what others hear'.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> UK public servants have a purdah period before moving to
>>>>> organisations
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> operate in the same sphere.  Why, in the name of accountabaility,
>>>>> does
>>>>>>> ICANN
>>>>>>> still not? (Have we forgotten and already discounted the terrible
>>>>>>> optics of
>>>>>>> Dengate-Thrushgate?). A mere xix months would not be onerous.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Please don't dissect Fadi's actual words. They don't count.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hardly at all.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It's the nature of 'who', 'where', and 'when' that counts much more
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> 'what', or even 'why'.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> '
>>>>>>>> And with that, I shall stop and simply add -- Happy Holidays!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Likewise.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Sivasubramanian M
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
>>> Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
>> 
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