[CCWG-ACCT] premature jurisdiction debates

[Greg Shatan]

I think the more germane (and more accurate) statement of Phil's was the
second part of his couplet:

ICANN maintains the root zone, it doesn't decide who performs technical and
other  operations for a given ccTLD.

(Yes, actually the Root Zone Maintainer (currently Verisign) actually
maintains the root zone, not ICANN.  The point is the powerlessness of
ICANN to actually cause (rather than receive, verify and transmit) changes
to the root.  This will be even more so when Root Zone administration is in
a separate corporation (currently known as PTI).)

I know enough about ccTLD "control" to know that any generality about ccTLD
control is false.  Even this one.

Greg

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 6:36 PM, Stephen Deerhake <sdeerhake at nic.as> wrote:

> Greetings Phil.
>
> You state:
>
> > I'm not familiar with the details on that. But any nation controls its
> own
> ccTLD.
>
> Can you cite any statute (US or otherwise) or policy (IETF, IANA, ICANN,
> etc.) that supports your claim that "...any nation controls its own
> ccTLD."?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Stephen Deerhake
> .AS Domain Registry
> GDNS, LLC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of
> Phil
> Corwin
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:30 PM
> To: Nigel Roberts <nigel at channelisles.net>;
> accountability-cross-community at icann.org
> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] premature jurisdiction debates
>
> I'm not familiar with the details on that. But any nation controls its own
> ccTLD.
>
> ICANN maintains the root zone, it doesn't decide who performs technical and
> other  operations for a given ccTLD.
>
> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
> Virtualaw LLC
> 1155 F Street, NW
> Suite 1050
> Washington, DC 20004
> 202-559-8597/Direct
> 202-559-8750/Fax
> 202-255-6172/Cell
>
> Twitter: @VlawDC
>
> "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of
> Nigel
> Roberts
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:11 PM
> To: accountability-cross-community at icann.org
> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] premature jurisdiction debates
>
> And the redelegation of .US  . . . .
>
>
> On 22/06/16 20:39, Phil Corwin wrote:
> > So long as we have a common understanding of what would constitute
> > "interference by the U.S. government" (of which there has been little
> > to none since ICANN's inception, with the possible exception of the
> > delay in .xxx delegation to the root). I presume you are advocating
> > deciding upon a process to address such an occurrence, rather than
> > making a decision now about an alternate jurisdiction for a situation
> > that may never arise, or occur decades from now.
> >
> > I'll start that discussion by stating that it would likely include
> > interference in ICANN's policymaking process (outside of advocacy
> > within the GAC) or trying to block or compel a change in the root
> > zone, through methods that are inconsistent with the Bylaws.
> >
> > I don't think it should include private litigation brought against
> > ICANN and heard in state or federal court; or law enforcement actions,
> > such as bringing an antitrust action if there is an allegation of
> > illicit pricing decisions, or criminal charges against an ICANN
> > employee for embezzlement, etc.
> >
> > *Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal*
> >
> > *Virtualaw LLC*
> >
> > *1155 F Street, NW*
> >
> > *Suite 1050*
> >
> > *Washington, DC 20004*
> >
> > *202-559-8597/Direct*
> >
> > *202-559-8750/Fax*
> >
> > *202-255-6172/Cell***
> >
> > **
> >
> > *Twitter: @VlawDC*
> >
> > */"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey/*
> >
> > *From:*accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
> > [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf
> > Of *Mueller, Milton L
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:15 PM
> > *To:* Guru Acharya; Roelof Meijer
> > *Cc:* accountability-cross-community at icann.org
> > *Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] premature jurisdiction debates
> >
> > In the reflexive approach, you would ask "what are the institutional
> > mechanisms or procedures to ensure that jurisdiction issue can be
> > addressed in an adverse situation where the US jurisdiction is longer
> > tenable, however rare it may it?" In the absolute rarest of rare cases
> > that the US legislature or judiciary try to interfere with community
> > decisions (the black swan scenario), how would ICANN ensure that this
> > interference is contained/minimised? What are the institutional
> > mechanisms or procedures for addressing the situation where the US (or
> > any other) jurisdiction is no longer hospitable/ideal for the ICANN
> > policymaking or IANA functions? These are the questions that we should
> > be asking in the WS2 on jurisdiction.
> >
> > MM: I think this is a good point. Even advocates of US jurisdiction or
> > those who, like me, think there is just no better alternative and that
> > the disruption and risks caused by a change are not worth the
> > uncertain improvements, can easily agree that there should be
> > procedures or plans for how to respond to interference by the U.S.
> government.
> >
> > Dr. Milton L. Mueller
> >
> > Professor, School of Public Policy
> >
> > Georgia Institute of Technology
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
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> >
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