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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Greg,<br>
<br>
Comments somewhat inline and below.<br>
<br>
On 12/18/14 2:56 PM, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CA+aOHURmEH63yh9KxhWOFVoKY-rAmF+YJAjY7x0JDh7ZApY5Bw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Eric,
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<div>Thanks for your reply and confirmation. I think that if
one pauses at your statement "<span style="font-size:13px">what
we mean by "public interest" is determined by our social
expectations -- as residents of France (and Europe) and as
residents of the United States (and North America)" (or
Namibia or Argentina, etc. etc.)" the great difficulty in
defining an overarching definition of "public interest" for
ICANN becomes clear. And I think it goes beyond
geographically-driven social differences -- to political,
cultural, economic and other differences, etc.</span></div>
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</blockquote>
<br>
As you note, the reasons for differences in framing "public
interest" is larger than mere location.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+aOHURmEH63yh9KxhWOFVoKY-rAmF+YJAjY7x0JDh7ZApY5Bw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:13px">For instance, someone who felt
that bridging the digital divide was a paramount "public
interest" concern would emphatically say yes in answer to
your questions. Someone whose public interest concerns lay
elsewhere might say that those are nice, but should not be a
priority over [xyz]. And there could be more extreme
reactions than that to those with different priorities or
different perspectives on how important the "public
interest" is versus other interests.</span></div>
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</blockquote>
<br>
In my response to Malcolm Hutty, to which you originally responded,
I offered "mere stewardship of unique endpoint identifiers and
protocol parameters" and "informed only by the commentary of the
IAB, e.g., RFC 2826" as sufficient to create "significant public
interest capability, and responsibility". RFC 2826 is the "
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IAB Technical Comment on the Unique DNS Root" [1].<br>
<br>
My choice of examples of public interest policy development in my
response to Mr. Hutty -- IDNs, address allocation during exhaustion,
and zone signing algorithms, have a non-trivial relation to 2826.
One or more, if not addressed, presented the possibility of
preempting the rational central to RFC 2826. In my response to your
note I simply extended the use case for IDNs from where we were in
the 2003 and 2010 IDN and IDNA exercises to where we are today with
Script Generation Panels, and of course, the ICANN Board of
Directors Nairobi direction to the Community to study supporting
applicants from underdeveloped economies. I didn't mention "bridging
the digital divide", which, as you observed, is not universally
compelling.<br>
<br>
Again, if we are to detour to define or clarify "public interest",
the details will be important, as is the case for the central point
of the CCWG-Accountability exercise.<br>
<br>
I hope this finally clarifies my prior comments to you and Mr.
Hutty.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Eric Brunner-Williams<br>
Eugene, Oregon<br>
<br>
[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc2826/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc2826/</a><br>
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cite="mid:CA+aOHURmEH63yh9KxhWOFVoKY-rAmF+YJAjY7x0JDh7ZApY5Bw@mail.gmail.com"
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<div><span style="font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px">Greg</span></div>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Eric
Brunner-Williams <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net" target="_blank">ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net</a>></span>
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span
class="">On 12/18/14 2:09 PM, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Eric,<br>
<br>
I'm not sure why you appear to be limiting your inquiry
to the "technical coordination of unique endpoint
identifiers" and the IANA Function, narrowly construed.
Or is your point that from that fairly narrow set of
tasks, a broad variety of developments, innovations and
other consequences have flowed, hopefully in the public
interest (but certainly affecting the public interest.)?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span> Starting at "Or is your point ..." Yes.<span
class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On a
separate note, the way I look at the whole "applicable
law" point is that ICANN (like any person or entity)
should be expected to act within the laws applicable to
it. To put it another way, they shouldn't break the
law. There is some validity to Dr. Lisse's point that
this is both vague and self-evident, but it gives folks
some comfort to say it in things like Articles of
Incorporation (indeed, there's a certain level of
requirement for statements like that in documents like
that). The linkage between acting in the "public
interest" and not breaking the law is somewhat cloudy.
Many corporations (and people) do the latter without
doing the former. And sometimes (e.g., the Pentagon
Papers or (arguably, to some) Edward Snowden) do the
former while failing to do the latter.<br>
<br>
In any event, I do think there is some value in
clarifying the concept of "public interest" in the
context of ICANN, but I am not seeing the value in
trying to create a linkage between that concept and the
concept of "applicable law."<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span> I don't know if you recall the discussion between
Jeff Neuman and Bertrand de la Chapelle -- if I recall
correctly -- at the Paris meeting -- it was the first of
those awkard "facilitated conversations" with colored bits
of paper for the rest of us to indicate our responses to the
theses of Jeff and Bertrand. They talked to, and past, each
other, attempting to make cases for what "the public
interest" might be. To my mind the enduring value of that
moment (and others later in policy development contexts) was
the demonstration that what we mean by "public interest" is
determined by our social expectations -- as residents of
France (and Europe) and as residents of the United States
(and North America).<br>
<br>
If we are to "clarify the concept" I suspect that starting
with explicit questions like "should we extend IDN to meet
the requirements for lesser known languages?" or "should we
promote registrar and registry formations in developing
economies?" will be useful -- questions rather remote from
"applicable law".<br>
<br>
These two example questions, to be sure, are outside of the
remit of the CCWG, but if we are to detour to define or
clarify "public interest", the details will be important.
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Eric Brunner-Williams<br>
Eugene, Oregon<br>
<br>
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