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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/7/15 12:36 PM, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+aOHURa3gAyJ21x0QeYd9B5xQ17AgFQUH4nRvrLj59EhON4wg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">It seems a little early in the process to
definitively state what the powers of the Members will be and
won't be. <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'd like to see the eligibility (to become a member) or eligibilies
(assuming classes of members) defined prior to, or at the same time
as, defining the "powers of members".<br>
<br>
Eric Brunner-Williams<br>
Eugene, Oregon<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+aOHURa3gAyJ21x0QeYd9B5xQ17AgFQUH4nRvrLj59EhON4wg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"> Even the document you link to has a broader list
of Members' potential powers:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
58.5pt;line-height:14.3pt"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(51,51,51)">·<span
style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times
New Roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Appoint
members of <i>Affirmation</i> review
teams</span></p>
<p class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
58.5pt;line-height:14.3pt"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(51,51,51)">·<span
style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times
New Roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Review
any board
decision. Non-approval would send decision back to
bottom-up policy
development process.</span></p>
<p class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
58.5pt;line-height:14.3pt"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(51,51,51)">·<span
style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times
New Roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">[Alt:]
Refer any board
decision to an <u>independent</u> review panel. The CWG
believes this should be binding for IANA functions.</span></p>
<p class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
58.5pt;line-height:14.3pt"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(51,51,51)">·<span
style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times
New Roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Approve
changes to
ICANN bylaws or Articles, with 2/3 majority</span></p>
<p class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
58.5pt;line-height:14.3pt"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(51,51,51)">·<span
style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times
New Roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Approve
annual
proposed ICANN budget [vote threshold?]</span></p>
<p class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
58.5pt;line-height:14.3pt"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(51,51,51)">·<span
style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times
New Roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Recall
one or all
ICANN Board members [vote threshold?]</span></p>
<p class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt
58.5pt;line-height:14.3pt"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br>
</span></p>
<div>This is not to say it's completely "open season" on
empowering the Membership; but we shouldn't cut off
discussion at this very early stage.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Steve
DelBianco <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sdelbianco@netchoice.org" target="_blank">sdelbianco@netchoice.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>
<div>Some clarifications about the Member concept, as
described on the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=51416471"
target="_blank">
Work Area 2 inventory</a>:</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Members are not outside of ICANN — they are
designated by their respective
AC/SO/Constituencies. So not sure there is much
risk that a majority of these Members could be
captured.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Members would be given only these enumerated
powers:</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>Appoint members of Affirmation Review teams</div>
<div>Review [and perhaps reverse] any board
decision. Non-approval would send decision back
to bottom-up policy development process.</div>
<div>Approve proposed changes to ICANN Bylaws or
Articles of Incorporation.</div>
<div>Approve annual proposed budget </div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Members could <u>not</u> re-write contracts or
budgets or bylaws. If a bottom-up consensus
process generated a bylaws change that was rejected
by the board, the Members could reverse that
decision, however.</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
40px;border:none;padding:0px"><br>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>Steve DelBianco</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium
none;BORDER-LEFT:medium
none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df
1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Greg
Shatan <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday,
January 7, 2015 at 12:45 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org"
target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org"
target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><span
class=""><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
[CCWG-Accountability] Regarding Non-profit and
public-benefit legal structure<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span class="">
<div dir="ltr">I would not rush to the conclusion
that a membership group is per se prone to
capture. A poorly designed membership group,
yes. The devil is in the details -- who are the
members? if they are individuals, who do they
represent? how do they act? when can they act,
and how quickly? how many of them are there?
what are their powers? who is excluded? are
there classes of members? is voting weighted?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, I'm not sure if (or why) the
community accountability mechanism needs to be
"outside" (depending on what that means).
Members in a membership corporation are not
really outside, unless I am not getting the
sense of the word as used here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for the dispute resolution mechanism,
that will depend on the other two factors
(among other things). If the members have the
"last word" on something, and the board fails
to act, binding arbitration (or litigation)
would be a reasonable step (although some
escalation mechanisms might be appropriate
before getting there).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Greg Shatan<br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Wed,
Jan 7, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Paul Rosenzweig <span
dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"
target="_blank">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue"
vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><span class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
think that the potential for capture
of the outside member group is the
reason that the accountability system
probably needs to be linked to an
independent judicial/arbitral function
to resolve disputes. [Of course that
institution, too, could be captured …
but at some point we have to end the
“who guards the guardians?”
question]. And that, in turn
emphasizes why it is necessary as part
of the transition to define the
Board’s/ICANN’s scope of authority. A
judicial/arbitral function can only
resolve disputes and cabin
capture/abuse if it has an articulated
standard against which to measure the
dispute. In the absence of such
pre-existing guidance the
judiciary/arbiter is simply
substituting his/her/its own judgment
for the Board and the Community, which
is not a good thing.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hence
the bottom line: We need a) an
outside accountability mechanism
representing the community; b) an
independent dispute resolution
mechanism; and c) clearly articulated
standards against which to measure and
resolve any dispute</span><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
</span>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">
Mathieu Weill [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr"
target="_blank">mathieu.weill@afnic.fr</a>]
<br>
</span></p>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 7,
2015 9:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org"
target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[CCWG-Accountability] Regarding
Non-profit and public-benefit legal
structure</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear
Colleagues,<br>
<br>
Many thanks for this very valuable
discussion. <br>
<br>
While it confirms that our initial
orientation towards the ability
to, somehow, oversee the Board, is
relevant and worth exploring, the
latest comments (regarding risk of
capture) highlight that we should
also anticipate on the
accountability of the overseeing
mechanism itself. <br>
<br>
If "the community" (through a
mechanism yet to be determined)
oversees Board and staff, can we
ensure all stakeholders,
especially those who are less
familiar with Icann, that "the
community", in turn, is
accountable (ie has the relevant
independent checks and balances,
review and redress mechanisms) ? A
significant challenge, but I'm
confident our group can address
that.
<br>
<br>
This aspect might, however, need
to be addressed in our definition
of WS1, if there is agreement that
is a necessary element for the
transition to take place.
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Mathieu<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Le 07/01/2015 09:07, Dr Eberhard W
Lisse a écrit :<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am not
interested much in the
details, interesting as they
are :-)-O, but would like to
pick up on Bruce's last
paragraph, because in my view,
the "membership supervision"
is not going to help much as
it is prone to capture, quite
the opposite of the
accountability we want.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">greetings,
el</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 7, 2015, at 02:40, Greg
Shatan <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What
Bruce has set forth is
close to correct.
However, I can't help but
do a little legal
nit-picking.
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"Public
benefit corporation" is
a term used in
California (among other
places) as a term for
non-profit corporations
generally. (In New York
State, we use the term
"not-for-profit
corporation" to mean
basically the same thing
as a California "public
benefit corporation"
(and we use the term
"public benefit
corporation" to mean
something quite
different -- a
quasi-public corporation
like the Metropolitan
Transport Authority).)
California public
benefit corporations are
not really "chartered by
the state" (though New
York ones like the MTA
are chartered by the
state). [Wikipedia
isn't always a great
source....]</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In
California, public
benefit corporations may
be created with or
without members, or may
convert from member to
non-member and vice
versa. However, a
public benefit
corporation with members
is still a public
benefit corporation. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(California
also has "mutual benefit
corporations" which are
non-profit but never
charitable (and are also
not tax-exempt). Mutual
benefit corporations are
run for the benefit of
their members, and not
for the benefit of the
general public.)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The
term "member" can also
be used to mean people
(or organizations) who
aren't really members.
For instance, when you
become a "member" of a
museum, you are not
becoming a member of the
corporation (i.e., what
some in ICANN-land have
termed a "statutory
member"). These
non-statutory
"memberships" are more
for marketing purposes
and have no governance
role. "Statutory
members" on the other
hand, have a role in
governance (which can
vary markedly depending
on the by-laws of the
particular corporation.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hope
this helps.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best
regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greg
Shatan</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(Speaking
for myself, and not
giving legal advice as I
am not a member of the
California Bar)</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:54
PM, Bruce Tonkin <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au" target="_blank">Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au</a>>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in
0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello
Phil,<br>
<br>
<br>
>> I would
envisage the Board
having to be
compliance with all
Corporate Governance
Codes specific to
Companies Law in the
country of
incorporation, subject
to a community
consensus override.
But what is its
corporate status - not
for profit or for
profit - as different
codes would apply ?<br>
<br>
The legal status of
ICANN is as specified
in its articles of
incorporation:<br>
<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/articles-2012-02-25-en"
target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/articles-2012-02-25-en</a><br>
<br>
"This Corporation is a
non-profit public
benefit corporation
and is not organized
for the private gain
of any person. It is
organized under the
California Non-profit
Public Benefit
Corporation Law for
charitable and public
purposes. The
Corporation is
organized, and will be
operated, exclusively
for charitable,
educational, and
scientific purposes
within the meaning of
§ 501 (c)(3) of the
Internal Revenue Code
of 1986, as amended
(the "Code"), or the
corresponding
provision of any
future United States
tax code. Any
reference in these
Articles to the Code
shall include the
corresponding
provisions of any
further United States
tax code."<br>
<br>
Also from:<br>
<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-benefit_nonprofit_corporation"
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-benefit_nonprofit_corporation</a><br>
<br>
"A public-benefit
non-profit
corporation is a type
of non-profit
corporation chartered
by a state government,
and organized
primarily or
exclusively for
social, educational,
recreational or
charitable purposes by
like-minded citizens.
Public-benefit
nonprofit corporations
are distinct in the
law from
mutual-benefit
nonprofit corporations
in that they are
organized for the
general public
benefit, rather than
for the interest of
its members."<br>
<br>
I believe it was
deliberately set up as
public benefit rather
than a member
organization - to
avoid the situation
where the members
become limited to say
gTLD registries and
registrars and hence
it ends up operating
primarily for the
benefit of the domain
name registration
industry.<br>
<br>
Any move away from a
public-benefit
corporation to a
membership corporation
- would need to
carefully consider how
to ensure that the
members are reflective
of the broader
Internet community and
don't become limited
to a few members as
interest in "ICANN"
drops over time.
I.e. a failure
scenario of membership
organisation is what
happens to the
membership base over
time and how it can be
protected from
capture. I have
seen some membership
based ccTLDs get into
problems when their
membership becomes
dominated by domain
name investors for
example.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Bruce Tonkin<br>
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<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>*****************************</pre>
<pre>Mathieu WEILL</pre>
<pre>AFNIC - directeur général</pre>
<pre>Tél: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B33%201%2039%2030%2083%2006" value="+33139308306" target="_blank">+33 1 39 30 83 06</a></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr" target="_blank">mathieu.weill@afnic.fr</a></pre>
<pre>Twitter : @mathieuweill</pre>
<pre>*****************************</pre>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a>
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