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Hi,<br>
<br>
Denic has a reasonable basis for membership. <br>
<br>
I cannot understand what reasonable form that membership would take
for ICANN. And as Robin's notes shows, it may not be necessary to
achieve our goals.<br>
<br>
We talked about SOAC [or their chairs], for example, are they all
equal in represenation and voting weight, or do we need to negotiate
some other form of balance? And what if new SOAC were to be created
by the Board? What about the GAC, can a government entitiy join a
California membership corporation? And if not based on SOAC, then
what. Would it cost to join, and would that appropriate? If it did
cost would that leave civil sociey behind? If it thee was not some
sort of control would one sector or region predominate? Would we
need to force a balance. Could governments join? How would someone
maintain membership - is it permanent or does it take a renewal
process. <br>
<br>
And those are just the first questions. Membership sounds like an
easy solution but the complexities are mind boggling.<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21-Jan-15 08:40, Dr Eberhard WLisse
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:97304E91-FD01-4B82-B752-A6AA0F6BFBE1@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>Just for the record Nominet barely avoided capture, and by
borderline means...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>DENIC has some form of membership (industry).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>el<br>
<br>
-- <span class="Apple-style-span"></span>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span">Sent from </span><span>Dr
Lisse's iPhone 5s</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jan 20, 2015, at 23:27, James M. Bladel <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>Team:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd like to associate myself with Greg’s comments
(below). We cannot rule out proposed structures due to
their novelty, and anticipated weaknesses are simply
indicators that we need to continue working to improve/flesh
out the idea(s).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In fact, I don’t believe is all that unknown in our
industry. Two large ccTLDs (UK and CA) have some recognized
form of membership that participates in governance and
policy development in the TLD. And I am of the opinion that
a well-designed membership structure could be an excellent
safeguard <span>against</span> capture of ICANN by a
majority of the Board, or a single SO/AC.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks to all for a productive meeting in Frankfurt, look
forward to future discussions, and see you in Singapore.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks—</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>J.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div>
<span>From: </span>Greg Shatan <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span>Date: </span>Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 20:38 <br>
<span>To: </span>Sivasubramanian M <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span>Cc: </span>Accountability Cross Community <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<span>Subject: </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT]
[CCWG-Accountability] Membership thoughts<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Siva,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What's your solution? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And how do you think we will be able to avoid
unknown territory? I think we're going into some
kind of unknown territory no matter what, since
"known territory" is unsatisfactory (or else we
wouldn't be here).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And why do you assume that potential participants
will be shut out? Any system, poorly designed, will
have problems. So let's try to design this well, so
it doesn't shut out potential participants. Any
grouping of people or entities is in some ways
"prone to be captured." But rather than shoot down
the membership concept in a knee-jerk fashion, try
to work toward resolution, or at least try to create
some useful "stress tests." I'm not saying that a
membership organization is the right solution, the
only solution, or even an available solution.
Fighting through the issues won't be quick or
pretty, and it may be the end-result doesn't work.
But it's too soon to know.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The only way to avoid everything in your email is
to stay in bed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Greg Shatan</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:08
PM, Sivasubramanian M <span dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com"
target="_blank">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default">
I am equally concerned. The idea of moving to
a membership based system takes us into an
unknown territory. A membership based system
shuts out a section of potential participants
due to their inability to meet the requirement
(money or other) for membership, the system is
prone to be captured, and there would be
imbalances and unknown dangers.</div>
<div class="gmail_default">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">
Sivasubramanain M</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><span class="HOEnZb"><br>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy"
target="_blank">Sivasubramanian M</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 21,
2015 at 12:08 AM, Olivier MJ
Crepin-Leblond
<span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ocl@gih.com"
target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
Dear Jordan,<br>
<br>
thanks for your looking into this in
further detail.<br>
My comment below:<br>
<span><br>
On 19/01/2015 16:00, Jordan Carter
wrote:<br>
><br>
> It would be straightforward and
possible to make e.g. SO and AC chairs<br>
> effective "members" of ICANN (we
define our own membership system). It<br>
> would be harder to allow
individuals with some standing to join<br>
> stakeholder constituencies of
voters and then allocate shares of
total<br>
> votes across these in a fair way.
It would be possible but mad to have<br>
> a "one member one vote" system
where a ccTLD manager had the same say<br>
> as an Internet user.<br>
<br>
</span>Isn't what you're describing
ICANN version 1, with thousands of<br>
individual voters? I agree that did not
work and will not work today<br>
either. However, I would also really
urge caution in turning ICANN into<br>
a purely membership organisation that
allocates shares of total votes<br>
according to size of organisational
members. I have seen membership<br>
organisations being captured by large
players buying out smaller players<br>
- the endgame being $$$ controlling the
organisation and *not* the<br>
public interest.<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<span><br>
--<br>
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.gih.com/ocl.html"
target="_blank">http://www.gih.com/ocl.html</a><br>
</span>
<div>
<div><br>
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