<div dir="ltr"><div>+1 as i also think a membership approach could be problematic, i should however note that the NRO/ASO like structure model suggested is not necessarily a membership scenario, whether that fixes any accountability is another issue, and perhaps such model will be best/better discussed within the CWG setting (especially if there is need to consider an alternate to contract co)<br><br></div>Regards<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Tijani BEN JEMAA <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tijani.benjemaa@fmai.org.tn" target="_blank">tijani.benjemaa@fmai.org.tn</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="FR">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Avri is right. We can’t propose a membership organization
without setting very clear and objective rules that make it fair and sustainable,
without loosing the multi-stakeholder dimension and the public interest. The biggest
danger would be the capture. Too complex….<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#17365d" lang="EN-US">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#17365d" lang="EN-US">Tijani BEN JEMAA<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#17365d" lang="EN-US">Executive Director<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#17365d" lang="EN-US">Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#17365d" lang="EN-US">(<b>FMAI</b>)</span><span style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#17365d" lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#17365d">Phone: <a href="tel:%2B%20216%2041%20649%20605" value="+21641649605" target="_blank">+ 216 41 649 605</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#17365d">Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B%20216%2098%20330%20114" value="+21698330114" target="_blank">+ 216 98 330 114</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> <span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" lang="EN-US">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" lang="EN-US">
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>De la part de</b>
A</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">vri Doria<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mercredi 21 janvier 2015 09:51<br>
<b>À :</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] [] [CCWG-Accountability] Membership
thoughts<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi,<br>
<br>
Denic has a reasonable basis for membership. <br>
<br>
I cannot understand what reasonable form that membership would take for
ICANN. And as Robin's notes shows, it may not be necessary to achieve our
goals.<br>
<br>
We talked about SOAC [or their chairs], for example, are they all equal
in represenation and voting weight, or do we need to negotiate some other form
of balance? And what if new SOAC were to be created by the Board? What
about the GAC, can a government entitiy join a California membership
corporation? And if not based on SOAC, then what. Would it cost to join,
and would that appropriate? If it did cost would that leave civil sociey
behind? If it thee was not some sort of control would one sector or
region predominate? Would we need to force a balance. Could
governments join? How would someone maintain membership - is it permanent or
does it take a renewal process. <br>
<br>
And those are just the first questions. Membership sounds like an easy
solution but the complexities are mind boggling.<br>
<br>
avri<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 21-Jan-15 08:40, Dr Eberhard WLisse wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just for the record Nominet barely avoided capture, and by
borderline means...<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">DENIC has some form of membership (industry).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">el<br>
<br>
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Sent from </span>Dr Lisse's
iPhone 5s<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 20, 2015, at 23:27, James M. Bladel <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com" target="_blank">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Team:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'd like to associate myself with Greg’s comments
(below). We cannot rule out proposed structures due to their novelty, and
anticipated weaknesses are simply indicators that we need to continue working
to improve/flesh out the idea(s).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In fact, I don’t believe is all that unknown in our
industry. Two large ccTLDs (UK and CA) have some recognized form of
membership that participates in governance and policy development in the TLD.
And I am of the opinion that a well-designed membership structure could
be an excellent safeguard against capture of ICANN by a majority of the
Board, or a single SO/AC.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks to all for a productive meeting in Frankfurt, look
forward to future discussions, and see you in Singapore.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks—<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">J.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">From: Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 20:38 <br>
To: Sivasubramanian M <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_blank">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Accountability Cross Community <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] [CCWG-Accountability] Membership thoughts<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Siva, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What's your solution? <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">And how do you think we will be able to avoid unknown
territory? I think we're going into some kind of unknown territory no
matter what, since "known territory" is unsatisfactory (or else we
wouldn't be here).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">And why do you assume that potential participants will be
shut out? Any system, poorly designed, will have problems. So let's
try to design this well, so it doesn't shut out potential participants.
Any grouping of people or entities is in some ways "prone to be
captured." But rather than shoot down the membership concept in a
knee-jerk fashion, try to work toward resolution, or at least try to create
some useful "stress tests." I'm not saying that a membership
organization is the right solution, the only solution, or even an available
solution. Fighting through the issues won't be quick or pretty, and it
may be the end-result doesn't work. But it's too soon to know.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The only way to avoid everything in your email is to stay in
bed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greg Shatan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Sivasubramanian M <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_blank">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am equally concerned. The idea of moving to a
membership based system takes us into an unknown territory. A membership based
system shuts out a section of potential participants due to their inability to
meet the requirement (money or other) for membership, the system is prone to be
captured, and there would be imbalances and unknown dangers.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sivasubramanain M<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy" target="_blank">Sivasubramanian M</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 12:08 AM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Jordan,<br>
<br>
thanks for your looking into this in further detail.<br>
My comment below:<br>
<br>
On 19/01/2015 16:00, Jordan Carter wrote:<br>
><br>
> It would be straightforward and possible to make e.g. SO and AC chairs<br>
> effective "members" of ICANN (we define our own membership
system). It<br>
> would be harder to allow individuals with some standing to join<br>
> stakeholder constituencies of voters and then allocate shares of total<br>
> votes across these in a fair way. It would be possible but mad to have<br>
> a "one member one vote" system where a ccTLD manager had the
same say<br>
> as an Internet user.<br>
<br>
Isn't what you're describing ICANN version 1, with thousands of<br>
individual voters? I agree that did not work and will not work today<br>
either. However, I would also really urge caution in turning ICANN into<br>
a purely membership organisation that allocates shares of total votes<br>
according to size of organisational members. I have seen membership<br>
organisations being captured by large players buying out smaller players<br>
- the endgame being $$$ controlling the organisation and *not* the<br>
public interest.<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
--<br>
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD<br>
<a href="http://www.gih.com/ocl.html" target="_blank">http://www.gih.com/ocl.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
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