<div dir="ltr"><div>Great! makes it even better. So if there is strong consideration using that model i guess fact that the structures are already inplace will make things easier.<br><br></div><div>Thanks for the info<br></div><div><br></div>Cheers!<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Barrack Otieno <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com" target="_blank">otieno.barrack@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Seun,<br>
<br>
For your information we have a similar organization check out<br>
<a href="http://www.rtldo.org" target="_blank">www.rtldo.org</a>. Our boards meet frequently during every ICANN meeting<br>
to discuss issues of mutual concern. We also work on joint projects<br>
such as surveys whose results are frequently shared within ICANN.<br>
<br>
Best Regards<br>
<div><div class="h5"><br>
On 1/22/15, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> One big question on this will be, who funds those external organizations?<br>
> Working in line of NRO/ASO was also a possible route proposed within ALAC<br>
> but my personal view is that such route could work if the existing regional<br>
> TLD associations(it's called AFTLD in Africa region) form a nro like body<br>
> which then becomes a ASO like representation within ICANN.<br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> sent from Google nexus 4<br>
> kindly excuse brevity and typos.<br>
> On 22 Jan 2015 04:03, "Greg Shatan" <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter<br>
>> ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of<br>
>> organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship<br>
>> (the<br>
>> ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are<br>
>> essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity<br>
>> independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external<br>
>> entities could then be members of ICANN. There are certainly<br>
>> difficulties<br>
>> with this idea (in particular, the GAC may be an issue, and the non-ccNSO<br>
>> ccTLDs may also be an issue), but it's an idea. These organizations<br>
>> would<br>
>> not be owned by the their "alter egos" (in the US, for instance,<br>
>> non-profit<br>
>> organizations generally cannot owned by any third party), so that may<br>
>> alleviate some concerns.<br>
>><br>
>> Greg Shatan<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:17 PM, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Hi,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Yes there are difficulties in a component becoming a controlling entity.<br>
>>> But I think there were those who thought it was possible. So probably<br>
>>> worth checking out by those working on the model. I understand the<br>
>>> right<br>
>>> lawyer can build almost anything.<br>
>>><br>
>>> What examples of working models (existing wheels of the right type) for<br>
>>> ICANN membership would you point to as worth exploring?<br>
>>><br>
>>> It was a good meeting. Happy I could be there.<br>
>>><br>
>>> avri<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 21-Jan-15 04:20, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> How can any internal structure of a company become "member" of said<br>
>>> company?<br>
>>><br>
>>> And, as far as the Country Codes are concerned it can not work, as not<br>
>>> all are members, and some might leave, depending on policy development.<br>
>>><br>
>>> There are similar organizations that have solved that problem, so I<br>
>>> would look at those, before reinventing the wheel.<br>
>>><br>
>>> el<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Jan 21, 2015, at 10:51, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Denic has a reasonable basis for membership.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I cannot understand what reasonable form that membership would take for<br>
>>> ICANN. And as Robin's notes shows, it may not be necessary to achieve<br>
>>> our<br>
>>> goals.<br>
>>><br>
>>> We talked about SOAC [or their chairs], for example, are they all equal<br>
>>> in represenation and voting weight, or do we need to negotiate some<br>
>>> other<br>
>>> form of balance? And what if new SOAC were to be created by the Board?<br>
>>> What about the GAC, can a government entitiy join a California<br>
>>> membership<br>
>>> corporation? And if not based on SOAC, then what. Would it cost to<br>
>>> join,<br>
>>> and would that appropriate? If it did cost would that leave civil sociey<br>
>>> behind? If it thee was not some sort of control would one sector or<br>
>>> region<br>
>>> predominate? Would we need to force a balance. Could governments join?<br>
>>> How would someone maintain membership - is it permanent or does it take<br>
>>> a<br>
>>> renewal process.<br>
>>><br>
>>> And those are just the first questions. Membership sounds like an easy<br>
>>> solution but the complexities are mind boggling.<br>
>>><br>
>>> avri<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 21-Jan-15 08:40, Dr Eberhard WLisse wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Just for the record Nominet barely avoided capture, and by borderline<br>
>>> means...<br>
>>><br>
>>> DENIC has some form of membership (industry).<br>
>>><br>
>>> el<br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Sent from Dr Lisse's iPhone 5s<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 23:27, James M. Bladel <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Team:<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'd like to associate myself with Greg’s comments (below). We cannot<br>
>>> rule out proposed structures due to their novelty, and anticipated<br>
>>> weaknesses are simply indicators that we need to continue working to<br>
>>> improve/flesh out the idea(s).<br>
>>><br>
>>> In fact, I don’t believe is all that unknown in our industry. Two<br>
>>> large ccTLDs (UK and CA) have some recognized form of membership that<br>
>>> participates in governance and policy development in the TLD. And I am<br>
>>> of<br>
>>> the opinion that a well-designed membership structure could be an<br>
>>> excellent<br>
>>> safeguard against capture of ICANN by a majority of the Board, or a<br>
>>> single SO/AC.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks to all for a productive meeting in Frankfurt, look forward to<br>
>>> future discussions, and see you in Singapore.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks—<br>
>>><br>
>>> J.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> From: Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 20:38<br>
>>> To: Sivasubramanian M <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> Cc: Accountability Cross Community <<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] [CCWG-Accountability] Membership thoughts<br>
>>><br>
>>> Siva,<br>
>>><br>
>>> What's your solution?<br>
>>><br>
>>> And how do you think we will be able to avoid unknown territory? I<br>
>>> think we're going into some kind of unknown territory no matter what,<br>
>>> since<br>
>>> "known territory" is unsatisfactory (or else we wouldn't be here).<br>
>>><br>
>>> And why do you assume that potential participants will be shut out?<br>
>>> Any system, poorly designed, will have problems. So let's try to design<br>
>>> this well, so it doesn't shut out potential participants. Any grouping<br>
>>> of<br>
>>> people or entities is in some ways "prone to be captured." But rather<br>
>>> than<br>
>>> shoot down the membership concept in a knee-jerk fashion, try to work<br>
>>> toward resolution, or at least try to create some useful "stress tests."<br>
>>> I'm not saying that a membership organization is the right solution,<br>
>>> the<br>
>>> only solution, or even an available solution. Fighting through the<br>
>>> issues<br>
>>> won't be quick or pretty, and it may be the end-result doesn't work.<br>
>>> But<br>
>>> it's too soon to know.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The only way to avoid everything in your email is to stay in bed.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Greg Shatan<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Sivasubramanian M <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> I am equally concerned. The idea of moving to a membership based<br>
>>>> system takes us into an unknown territory. A membership based system<br>
>>>> shuts<br>
>>>> out a section of potential participants due to their inability to meet<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>> requirement (money or other) for membership, the system is prone to be<br>
>>>> captured, and there would be imbalances and unknown dangers.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Sivasubramanain M<br>
>>>><br>
</div></div>>>>> Sivasubramanian M <<a href="https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy</a>><br>
<div><div class="h5">>>>><br>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 12:08 AM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond<br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com">ocl@gih.com</a><br>
>>>> > wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Dear Jordan,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> thanks for your looking into this in further detail.<br>
>>>>> My comment below:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On 19/01/2015 16:00, Jordan Carter wrote:<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > It would be straightforward and possible to make e.g. SO and AC<br>
>>>>> > chairs<br>
>>>>> > effective "members" of ICANN (we define our own membership system).<br>
>>>>> > It<br>
>>>>> > would be harder to allow individuals with some standing to join<br>
>>>>> > stakeholder constituencies of voters and then allocate shares of<br>
>>>>> > total<br>
>>>>> > votes across these in a fair way. It would be possible but mad to<br>
>>>>> > have<br>
>>>>> > a "one member one vote" system where a ccTLD manager had the same<br>
>>>>> > say<br>
>>>>> > as an Internet user.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Isn't what you're describing ICANN version 1, with thousands of<br>
>>>>> individual voters? I agree that did not work and will not work today<br>
>>>>> either. However, I would also really urge caution in turning ICANN<br>
>>>>> into<br>
>>>>> a purely membership organisation that allocates shares of total votes<br>
>>>>> according to size of organisational members. I have seen membership<br>
>>>>> organisations being captured by large players buying out smaller<br>
>>>>> players<br>
>>>>> - the endgame being $$$ controlling the organisation and *not* the<br>
>>>>> public interest.<br>
>>>>> Kind regards,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Olivier<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD<br>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.gih.com/ocl.html" target="_blank">http://www.gih.com/ocl.html</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
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>>>><br>
>>>><br>
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>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing<br>
</div></div>>>> listAccountability-Cross-Community@icann.orghttps://<a href="http://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
<span class="">>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing<br>
</span>>>> listAccountability-Cross-Community@icann.orghttps://<a href="http://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">--<br>
Barrack O. Otieno<br>
<a href="tel:%2B254721325277" value="+254721325277">+254721325277</a><br>
<a href="tel:%2B254-20-2498789" value="+254202498789">+254-20-2498789</a><br>
Skype: barrack.otieno<br>
<a href="http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/" target="_blank">http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
</div>