<p dir="ltr">sent from Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse brevity and typos.<br>
On 23 Jan 2015 07:58, "Dr Eberhard Lisse" <<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na">el@lisse.na</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Unreadable.<br>
><br>
Perhaps not seeing the file initially shared by Chris on all your client devices is related.</p>
<p dir="ltr">All the best with fixing your clients.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Cheers!</p>
<p dir="ltr">> el<br>
><br>
> On 2015-01-23 07:52, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<br>
> > sent from Google nexus 4<br>
> > kindly excuse brevity and typos.<br>
> > On 23 Jan 2015 06:28, "Kieren McCarthy" <<a href="mailto:kierenmccarthy@gmail.com">kierenmccarthy@gmail.com</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:kierenmccarthy@gmail.com">kierenmccarthy@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> Can we all stop wasting time writing long treatises agreeing with one<br>
> > another and get to the nub of this issue: who will pay for the advice;<br>
> > who is the lawyer or firm to approach; and how do we boil down the<br>
> > excessively long query document to something manageable?<br>
> >><br>
> > +1 to the 3 questions above which I will say has asked and<br>
> > answered/acted upon within CWG. Inview of this, I will add a 4th<br>
> > question; can the ccwg have a look at CWG questions to see if theirs is<br>
> > already covered and if not, whether it can be included.<br>
> ><br>
> > We don't need to reinvent the wheel of this legal process delaying the<br>
> > process unnecessarily. However if ccwg still prefers to do it's thing<br>
> > independently then please let's answer the 3 questions raise by Kieren.<br>
> ><br>
> > Regards<br>
> >> Kieren<br>
> >><br>
> >> -<br>
> >> [sent through phone]<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Drazek, Keith <<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com">kdrazek@verisign.com</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> +1 Robin<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> On Jan 22, 2015, at 8:41 PM, "Robin Gross" <<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
> >>><br>
> >>>> As a California attorney who has set up a number of California<br>
> > nonprofit corporations over the last decades and who understands the<br>
> > fiduciary relationship owed by an attorney to the corporation she<br>
> > represents and by a board member to the corporation it oversees, I can<br>
> > say we must have external legal advice to avoid both actual conflict of<br>
> > interest, but also to preclude the dismissal of the advice because of<br>
> > claims of conflict of interest. This matter is so legally complex that<br>
> > we need very specialized legal expertise - not something a general<br>
> > council's office is best suited for as they work on a broad range of<br>
> > issues for one specific client. That is why ICANN legal dept often<br>
> > utilizes the services of outside council to provide specific highly<br>
> > specialized legal expertise to the legal dept. on particular issues. So<br>
> > I agree with Becky, Eberhard, Phil, Paul, David, and Avri for all of<br>
> > these reasons.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Thanks,<br>
> >>>> Robin<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> On Jan 22, 2015, at 9:46 AM, Avri Doria wrote:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>> Hi,<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> Additionally, borrowing from a another professional field: whenever<br>
> > contemplating surgery, get a second opinion.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> avri<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> On 22-Jan-15 12:00, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> I agree with Becky, Eberhard, Phil, Paul and David, for all their<br>
> > reasons and more. If ICANN legal had all the expertise necessary, it<br>
> > would be a bad idea, due to lack of independence, ethical obligations to<br>
> > their client, etc. And even if they are reasonably well-informed on<br>
> > California non-profit law, that is necessary but not sufficient for the<br>
> > task at hand. Someone with considerable expertise and experience in<br>
> > corporate governance (especially non-profit) and corporate structuring<br>
> > in a variety of contexts (a "big brain," so to speak) is also necessary.<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> (Notably, when ICANN has needed significant advice in this area in<br>
> > the past, it is my impression that they have turned to the international<br>
> > mega firm of Jones Day (the biggest thing to come out of Cleveland, Ohio<br>
> > since<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Greg Shatan<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Gregory S. Shatan<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Partner | Abelman Frayne & Schwab<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> <a href="mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com">gsshatan@lawabel.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com">gsshatan@lawabel.com</a>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> ICANN-related: <a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> <a href="http://www.lawabel.com">www.lawabel.com</a> <<a href="http://www.lawabel.com">http://www.lawabel.com</a>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse <<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na">el@lisse.na</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na">el@lisse.na</a>>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> Eric,<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> I was not looking at it from that perspective, but Becky make sense,<br>
> >>>>>>> ie if we get an opinion that is contrary to what ICANN has<br>
> >>>>>>> previously asserted in court it would put ICANN in a difficult<br>
> >>>>>>> position.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> Almost as much as their Counsel estopping ICANN on anything not yet<br>
> >>>>>>> litigated.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> So, we need "unconflicted" Counsel.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> el<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> On 2015-01-22 16:49, Burr, Becky wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>> > Eric, I have great respect for the ICANN legal staff, but I¹m not<br>
> >>>>>>> > aware that anyone on staff possesses legal expertise on<br>
> >>>>>>> > international law and/or California not-for-profit law. More that<br>
> >>>>>>> > that, we know that ICANN has asserted various limitations on some<br>
> >>>>>>> > of the accountability mechanisms based on the ³fiduciary duty²<br>
> >>>>>>> > of Board members to the corporation. Whether the ideas in<br>
> >>>>>>> > question are good or bad, there is some skepticism - and a<br>
> >>>>>>> > conclusion by the Berkman Center during the first ATRT review that<br>
> >>>>>>> > additional legal research was needed, about the legal positions<br>
> >>>>>>> > asserted by ICANN¹s legal staff and its outside counsel. Given<br>
> >>>>>>> > the above, and ethical obligation of counsel to defend the views<br>
> >>>>>>> > of its client vigorously, I disagree with your view that ICANN¹s<br>
> >>>>>>> > counsel is well situated to provide the legal analysis we need.<br>
> >>>>>>> ><br>
> >>>>>>> ><br>
> >>>>>>> ><br>
> >>>>>>> ><br>
> >>>>>>> > J. Beckwith Burr<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> [...]<br>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
> >>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a>><br>
> >>>>>>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
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> >>>><br>
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> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
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> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a>><br>
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> >><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
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> ><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse \ / Obstetrician & Gynaecologist (Saar)<br>
> el@lisse.NA / * | Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell)<br>
> PO Box 8421 \ /<br>
> Bachbrecht, Namibia ;____/<br>
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</p>