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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks Eberhard.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Having spent several years active on the ccNSO Council, I am very aware of the unique concerns of ccTLD managers and the history you refer to. I know there
are many ccTLDs who have strong reservations against engaging within the ICANN community and I understand why. It’s a shame, but I recognize it’s the reality we face.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What I don’t understand is the reasoning behind your argument that, due to a subset of ccTLD managers who choose to avoid the ICANN community, a membership
structure comprised of those who *do* participate would be somehow unacceptable in holding ICANN Management accountable to its community.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">To your second point below, fortunately, for “such a TLD,” the parallel, interrelated and interdependent CWG Transition effort should address the operational
accountability of the IANA Function Manager to the ccTLD registries and gTLD registries (as direct customers and first affected parties) regardless of whether they participate in the ICANN policy development community or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">These broader ICANN Accountability discussions are about creating a bottom-up, consensus-based, multi-stakeholder structure to replace the backstop we’ll lose
when NTIA disengages. It’s about ensuring that ICANN management is directly accountable to the community it serves. Allow me to re-state what I’ve said several times recently….I view any possible membership structure, rooted in the existing (or evolving) ICANN
community structures, as a lever of last resort with very narrowly scoped powers and responsibilities. It would not be a replacement for other critical components of a robust accountability regime, such as those established by the CWG Transition to serve the
direct customers of IANA.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A membership structure or approach is only one of several options, and I expect we will seriously consider a blend of various options to arrive at the most
appropriate balance of cross-community accountability. The SO-AC-SG membership structure may be a new concept, but it also makes sense because it relies on community participants to appoint the members and to ensure the appointed member (whether an individual
or entity) is acting in the interests of that community as determined by their respective processes. How much more bottom-up, consensus-based and multi-stakeholder could it get? If the suggested list of eleven SO-AC-SG groups is somehow insufficient, let’s
discuss how it could be augmented with other appropriate groups that have the same commitments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">At this point, I think we should be adding to the list of options before us, not dismissing anything out of hand just because there are details and nuances
and sensitivities to be hashed out.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best,<br>
Keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dr Eberhard W Lisse<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 28, 2015 1:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> CCWG Accountability<br>
<b>Cc:</b> directors@omadhina.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] got some lawyerly answers on membership structure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Keith,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">this is the part of the problem, you are not aware how this works for ccTLDs or rather what ICANN has done to some ccTLD (Managers).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And, such a ccTLD doesn't bother about ICANN's accountability to the community, it bothers about the lack of the IANA Function Manager's accountability to it (the ccTld).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Before AND after the transition.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">el<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 28, 2015, at 18:50, Drazek, Keith <<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">+1 Roelof.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Also, in response to Eberhard’s previous post:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I'm curious why you think a ccTLD manager's choice to not join the ccNSO equates to an unworkable accountability model for those who have opted to join and participate and
bind themselves to ccNSO policy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">If a ccTLD manager is not a member of the ccNSO, is paying no fees to ICANN and is not bound by ccNSO policy, please help me understand how they are impacted and why they
would care about the ICANN Board's accountability mechanisms to its community. I fully understand why every TLD registry cares about the IANA functions and changes to the root zone file, but our issue of greater ICANN Accountability is a broader discussion
than the IANA-specific concerns and accountability mechanisms currently being addressed via the CWG Transition.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">As you have acknowledged, unlike the gTLD registries (and the broader community interested in gTLD policies), ccTLD managers have a built-in accountability mechanism...their
ability to "leave to become unbound by ccNSO developed policy." As you well know, the gTLD registries and the GNSO do not currently enjoy that luxury.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Keith</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Roelof Meijer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 28, 2015 9:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> CCWG Accountability<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] got some lawyerly answers on membership structure</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I wonder in which direction you would see a solution to this, Eberhard. To work properly, and especially if that influence will increase, the influence of stakeholders
will have to be organized in one way or another. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Which is probably why the SO’s and AC’s were created. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Without them, I suggest, there would be a lot more noise, combined with (even) less progress. Could a gathering of all individual stakeholders ever come up with
any useful decision on the crucial subjects that we forsee?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Roelof</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Eberhard Lisse <<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na">el@lisse.na</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>woensdag 28 januari 2015 06:33<br>
<b>To: </b>CCWG Accountability <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:directors@omadhina.net">directors@omadhina.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:directors@omadhina.net">directors@omadhina.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] got some lawyerly answers on membership structure</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Will not fly, because for example not all ccTLD Managers are members of the ccNSO, and nothing prevents a ccTLD Manager from leaving to become unbound by ccNSO
developed ICANN Policy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">And the structures are so diverse internally that once someone is elected a recall is never going to happen.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">el<br>
<br>
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
On Jan 28, 2015, at 03:32, Drazek, Keith <<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Rudolph,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">In this context, ICANN's "shareholders" or "members" would be the elected or appointed Chairs of the existing ICANN community's bottom-up, consensus-based, multi-stakeholder
structures. If those Chairs aren't ethical, then they could and should be replaced by their respective groups. I believe this would give us a built-in and permanent accountability loop rooted in the multi-stakeholder system, which is precisely what NTIA has
asked for. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Keith</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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Sent from my iPhone</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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On Jan 27, 2015, at 6:50 PM, "Rudolph Daniel" <<a href="mailto:rudi.daniel@gmail.com">rudi.daniel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">No nuance missing Jonathan. :)<br>
Likening to shareholders reminded me that shareholders are not always ethical in their pursuit of accountability.<br>
RD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On Jan 27, 2015 6:58 PM, "Jonathan Zuck" <<a href="mailto:JZuck@actonline.org">JZuck@actonline.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hmmm. I guess “we” is the community that have reached a fairly solid consensus that new accountability mechanisms need to be put in place at ICANN. And the role “we” seek them to play is exactly what EBW outlined below as aspirational. The issue is structural
reform that empowers the community to hold the board of ICANN accountable going forward. Likening it to “shareholder” accountability is not about turning ICANN into a commercial organization, merely addressing concerns surrounding liability. What nuance am
I missing here?<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> From: Rudolph Daniel [mailto:<a href="mailto:rudi.daniel@gmail.com">rudi.daniel@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:55 PM<br>
> To: Jonathan Zuck<br>
> Cc: Accountability Cross Community; Eric Brunner-Williams<br>
> Subject: RE: [CCWG-ACCT] got some lawyerly answers on membership structure<br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
> Not sure I get who 'we' is and 'seek them to play' ? <br>
> RD<br>
><br>
> On Jan 27, 2015 6:44 PM, "Jonathan Zuck" <<a href="mailto:JZuck@actonline.org">JZuck@actonline.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Agree but the point of accountability mechanisms is to ensure the board continues to play the role we seek them to play.<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] On
Behalf Of Rudolph Daniel<br>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:38 PM<br>
>> To: Eric Brunner-Williams<br>
>> Cc: Accountability Cross Community<br>
>> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] got some lawyerly answers on membership structure<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> I would think, and certainly it has been suggested elsewhere that public accountably be less of the shareholder kind and more of the ethical variety.<br>
>> RD<br>
>><br>
>> On Jan 27, 2015 3:04 PM, "Eric Brunner-Williams" <<a href="mailto:ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net">ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> All,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I would not like to see the Board's duty as stewards of the public trust -- exercising reasonable care, inquisitive, ... the strictest standard of duty of care in American law -- reduced to the pursuit of quarterly profits maximization prevalent in for-profit
Boards.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ICANN’s Board of Directors would become accountable to the community, in much the same way that the Boards of publicly-traded companies are ultimately accountable to their shareholders.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I suggest our standards are, by initial design, higher than the likeness proposed.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Eric Brunner-Williams<br>
>>> Eugene, Oregon<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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