<div dir="ltr">It's a worrying trend. <div><br></div><div>The closed committee looking at independent legal advice is now allowing observers on its mailing list but has yet to say how it is actually meeting and discussing things, or whether ICANN's lawyers are present at those meetings. (Or actually why the closed committee is in charge of that critical process in the first place.)</div><div><br></div><div>Now this group is meeting with just ICANN staff. </div><div><br></div><div>It strikes me that the only thing preventing from this happening more and more as things progress is people complaining on mailing lists. And they of course can simply be ignored. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Kieren</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Robin Gross <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">None of the other CCWG working teams are meeting in secret (or did so at their initial mtg). All the work done in this process is supposed to be in an open and transparent way. Is there some reason that the operational practices of the advisors need to have less transparency than the work of the rest of us in this effort?<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Robin<div><div class="h5"><br><div><br></div><div><div><br><div><div>On Mar 18, 2015, at 1:54 PM, Adam Peake wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px">Hi everyone,</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px">The advisors asked if they could have their own meeting; to get to know each other, to help them prepare for the sessions on Monday and Tuesday, to consider how they might best support the group while in Istanbul and ongoing. I thought it very reasonable that they should want to do this. I hope it will benefit the CCWG's work in the coming days, and over the next few months.</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px">Some questions asked:</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px">No, ICANN Board members will not join the advisors meeting on Sunday. Staff will be there, but to provide support/background. The purpose of the meeting is to allow the advisors to be able to talk about the proposals before them from the CCWG, and, I think, essentially to get to know each other. </div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br>We hadn't envisioned opening the meeting to observers. As it's their first opportunity for them to talk, to hold informal discussions, I think it perhaps helpful if not open. They are trying to prepare themselves for the meetings ahead. </div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px">Hopefully the Chairs will meet the Advisors later in the day, but this in part depends on travel plans. </div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px">Hope this helps.</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px">Best,</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px">Adam</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br></div></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px"><br></div><div><br></div><span><div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Robin Gross <<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 4:12 PM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Accountability Cross Community <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG Advisors joining Istanbul meeting<br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
I share Keith's concern. Let's remember we are holding ICANN to a high standard of transparency in its accountability processes - so of course that standard of transparency applies to this work as well. I planned to arrive to Istanbul in time to attend any
mtgs on Sunday so would like to attend this one as well at least as an observer.
<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Robin<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Mar 18, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Drazek, Keith wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;border-spacing:0px"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Seun,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I respectfully disagree.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If ICANN staff or Board members are participating in or attending a private planning meeting of the Advisors, then community members should also be invited to observe,
at a minimum.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If you look at their agenda items 2-5 (especially 2-3), their private meeting will contribute to setting expectations and understanding of the issues. Wouldn’t that be
best enabled through participation of CCWG members, or the Co-Chairs at a minimum?<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">In my opinion, it would be inappropriate for ICANN staff and/or Board members to have unique access to the Advisors at this sensitive and formative stage in their engagement
with the CCWG.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks and regards,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Keith<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span> </span>Seun Ojedeji [<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>]<span> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Wednesday, March 18, 2015 2:19 PM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>Drazek, Keith<br><b>Cc:</b><span> </span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>; Adam Peake<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG Advisors joining Istanbul meeting<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><u></u> <u></u></div><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
Hi,<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
While it may be fine to have them meet openly, I don't think it's something to worry about. The reason is because of their role being advisory; one would expect that whatever they determine would still be forwarded to ccwg as an advice to consider.<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
Regards<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
sent from Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse brevity and typos.<u></u><u></u></p><div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
On 18 Mar 2015 19:09, "Drazek, Keith" <<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
Hi Adam,<br><br>
Will any ICANN staff or Board members participate in or attend the private meeting of the Advisors?<br><br>
Is there a reason their meeting is not open to observers?<br><br>
Thanks,<br>
Keith<br><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From:<span> </span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><span> </span>[mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Adam Peake<br>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 2:04 PM<br>
To:<span> </span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
Subject: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG Advisors joining Istanbul meeting<br><br>
Hi everyone,<br><br>
Three of the Advisors will attend the CCWG meeting on Monday and Tuesday next week:<br><br>
Valerie D'Costa, Jan Scholte and Lee Bygrave<br>
(<a href="https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Advisors" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Advisors</a>)<br><br>
They arrive on Saturday and will hold their own meeting on Sunday morning and early afternoon. At least one other member, Willie Currie, will join remote.<br><br>
This is the first time any of them will have had chance to meet face to face. Tentative agenda for their meeting:<br><br>
09:00 - 15:00 local Istanbul (07:00 - 13:00 UTC)<br><br>
1. Introduction & Opening Remarks<br>
2. Topics of interest & Concerns<br>
3. Understanding the context and recent developments 4. How can we help the CCWG?<br>
5. Preparing for CCWG session<br>
6. A.O.B<br><br>
They will receive the same documents as all members of the CCWG, and we suspect their discussions will be shaped by those (WP1, WP2, stress test work party outcomes)<br><br>
They will join the welcome cocktail.<br><br>
Best,<br><br>
Adam<br><br>
Adam Peake<br><br>
ICANN<br><br>
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