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<DIV>Greg and all,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">in the 
early stage of the ICG there was an extensive discussion on how to make decision 
and in particular with regards to finding consensus. As a basis I’ve introduced 
the related GNSO process you and others are referring to.</DIV>
<DIV 
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">It turned 
out that this approach wasn’t fully acceptable by ICG members, and the result is 
the “<SPAN>ICG Guidelines for Decision Making<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">“ 
which you may find here: <A 
title=https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/icg-guidelines-decision-making-17sep14-en.pdf 
href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/icg-guidelines-decision-making-17sep14-en.pdf">https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/icg-guidelines-decision-making-17sep14-en.pdf</A></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV 
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV 
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">Transparency of 
the consensus building process of the various groups providing proposals for 
IANA stewardship transition is of utmost importance.<BR><BR>Best 
regards<BR><BR>Wolf-Ulrich<BR><BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=gregshatanipc@gmail.com 
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">Greg Shatan</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 24, 2015 6:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com 
href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">Kavouss Arasteh</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=accountability-cross-community@icann.org 
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</A> 
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Meeting with CCWG 
Advisors</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV 
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<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">Dear 
Kavouss,</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">Thank you for 
your email. I am sorry you disagree with the decision that was made a number of 
years ago to adopt that level of consensus in the GNSO and to call it 
"consensus."&nbsp; However, this definition of "consensus" is a fact -- this is 
the <I>de jure</I> standard for consensus in the GNSO.&nbsp; While one can 
disapprove of a fact, I'm not sure that one can disagree with a fact (at least, 
not with any effect).&nbsp; Since it is a fact, we will need to deal with it as 
such.&nbsp; In order to communicate between sectors of the community about 
consensus, we need to make sure we know what one means when one says 
consensus.&nbsp; Since we don't all mean the same thing, we need modifiers to 
avoid ambiguity and misunderstanding.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">As to whether 
this matches any international practice, I believe it matches the practice of 
the IETF; although they call it "rough consensus," it is their general 
decision-making threshold ("We believe in rough consensus and running 
code....").&nbsp; So, at least in this corner of the world, we are not 
alone.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">Best 
regards,</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">Greg</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default 
style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">.<BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <SPAN 
dir=ltr>&lt;<A href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" 
target=_blank>kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
  <DIV>
  <DIV>Dear Greg</DIV>
  <DIV>Sorry to be late in replying to your message.</DIV>
  <DIV>I regret that I disagree with definition of "consensus" as used by 
  GNSO</DIV>
  <DIV>That is an inappropriate invention which does not match any international 
  practice due to the fact that even when a minority disagree to an issue under 
  discussion it is no longer fit with the&nbsp; general understanding of the 
  sense of " consensus" which simply describe a case in which while a minority 
  disagree with a conclusion but they do not express any objection yo that 
  conclusion i.e. That minority COULD LIVE with that conclusion</DIV>
  <DIV>Regards</DIV><SPAN>
  <DIV>Kavouss</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV></SPAN>
  <DIV>
  <DIV class=h5>
  <DIV><BR>On 23 Mar 2015, at 22:45, Greg Shatan &lt;<A 
  href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" 
  target=_blank>gregshatanipc@gmail.com</A>&gt; wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
    <DIV>
    <DIV dir=ltr>
    <DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">Whether we 
    use modifiers before "consensus," we just need to have a common 
    understanding of what is meant in a given situation when we say 
    "consensus."</DIV>
    <DIV class=gmail_default 
style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">Within the 
    GNSO, we typically don't use a modifier before "consensus."&nbsp; We know 
    what is meant by "consensus" in the GNSO, particularly in the PDP context. 
    It's defined in Section 3.6 of the GNSO Working Group Guidelinesl: 
    "Consensus - a position where only a small minority disagrees, but most 
    agree"&nbsp; <A 
    href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/annex-1-gnso-wg-guidelines-13nov14-en.pdf" 
    target=_blank>http://gnso.icann.org/en/council/annex-1-gnso-wg-guidelines-13nov14-en.pdf</A></DIV>
    <DIV class=gmail_default 
style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">When we get 
    out of the GNSO (like Hobbits leaving the Shire), we know that not everyone 
    else defines "consensus" that way, so we resort to modifiers, to make sure 
    that we are clearly understood.</DIV>
    <DIV class=gmail_default 
style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">If we are 
    going to create new definitions of consensus for particular groups or 
    processes, we need to be clear what they are, and make sure they can be 
    identified in a way that distinguishes that "consensus" from GNSO 
    "consensus" or GAC "consensus" or IETF "consensus."&nbsp; If we are going to 
    borrow existing consensus definitions, we still need to make sure they can 
    be identified and distinguished from other variant forms of "consensus." 
    Modifiers seem like a straightforward way to do so.&nbsp; If there are other 
    ways to do so, I am open to hearing about them.&nbsp; If certain kinds of 
    modifiers create problems, we can avoid those modifiers.&nbsp; We could even 
    use colors -- the modifiers just need to lead us to the right meaning, they 
    don't need to have meaning in and of themselves.</DIV>
    <DIV class=gmail_default 
style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: verdana,sans-serif">Greg 
    Shatan</DIV>
    <DIV class=gmail_extra>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Kavouss Arasteh 
    <SPAN dir=ltr>&lt;<A href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" 
    target=_blank>kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote 
    style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
      <DIV>
      <DIV>thanks to all</DIV>
      <DIV>I do nit believe that for every community we need to define 
      modifier.</DIV>
      <DIV>I am not in favour of copying and definition from any community</DIV>
      <DIV>We should deal with each subject based on its merits snd in a case by 
      case basis</DIV>
      <DIV>Kavouss</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV><BR>On 22 Mar 2015, at 21:52, Avri Doria &lt;<A 
      href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target=_blank>avri@acm.org</A>&gt; 
      wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
        <DIV>Hi,<BR><BR>In ICANN, we do have modifiers before Consensus.&nbsp; 
        And varying definitions depending on which of the SOAC or processes we 
        are talking about.<BR><BR>In GNSO PDP processes we talk about Full 
        Consensus versus Consensus and that definiton of Consensus is not all 
        that diffferent from the IETF defintion of rough consensus; though we 
        often use polls instead of humming to help figure out how to continue 
        the discussion toward consensus.<BR><BR>The GNSO definition is different 
        from the GAC deffintion which I wont presume to define.<BR><BR>And in 
        defining ICANN Consensus Policy, we have yet another definition&nbsp; 
        which often depends on voting thresholds.<BR><BR>Personally I find it 
        hard to talk about Consensus in ICANN without using modifiers of some 
        sort.&nbsp; <BR><BR>As for an ICG definition of Consensus, that is 
        beyond my pay grade to try and fathom.<BR><BR>avri<BR><BR>
        <DIV>On 22-Mar-15 20:57, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:<BR></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
          <DIV dir=ltr>
          <DIV>Dear All,</DIV>
          <DIV>Some&nbsp; relevant questions and good reply.</DIV>
          <DIV>I strongly oppose any adjustive before consensus&nbsp; whether it 
          is " rough " or " Soft"&nbsp; or any thing else.</DIV>
          <DIV>We are CCWG and not IETF.</DIV>
          <DIV>In ICG that term even though proposed was abandonnned</DIV>
          <DIV>Pls kindly do not interpret&nbsp; " CONSENSUS" </DIV>
          <DIV>Regards</DIV>
          <DIV>Kavouss </DIV></DIV>
          <DIV class=gmail_extra>
          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV class=gmail_quote>2015-03-22 19:18 GMT+01:00 Rahul Sharma <SPAN 
          dir=ltr>&lt;<A href="mailto:wisdom.stoic@gmail.com" 
          target=_blank>wisdom.stoic@gmail.com</A>&gt;</SPAN>:<BR>
          <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote 
          style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
            <DIV dir=ltr>Hi Arun, 
            <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV>Just thinking aloud on the substance pointer raised - can 
            multistakholder model be evolved in a manner that ensures 
            proportional representation in communities, forums, structures and 
            Board. When I say proportional, I mean proportional to Internet 
            population of the country.<BR><BR>Regards,</DIV>
            <DIV>Rahul Sharma</DIV></DIV>
            <DIV class=gmail_extra>
            <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV class=gmail_quote>
            <DIV>
            <DIV>On 22 March 2015 at 15:04, Arun Sukumar <SPAN dir=ltr>&lt;<A 
            href="mailto:arun.sukumar@nludelhi.ac.in" 
            target=_blank>arun.sukumar@nludelhi.ac.in</A>&gt;</SPAN> 
            wrote:<BR></DIV></DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote 
            style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
              <DIV>
              <DIV>
              <DIV dir=ltr>Valerie D'Costa, an advisor to the CCWG, raised a 
              couple of interesting and important questions on process and 
              substance. I hope this is a faithful reproduction.&nbsp; 
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV>On process:</DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV>1. What should be the role of advisors? Should they offer 
              advice on the basis of unanimity or "rough consensus", or just 
              provide input independently? </DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV>2. Should advisors restrict their role to responding to 
              questions that have been flagged by the CCWG and routed through 
              the chairs? Or should they/ can they flag issues they feel are 
              important - weighed from their expertise. </DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV>On substance:</DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV>1. How is the accountability process taking stock of the 
              evolving "global internet community", given that it is going to be 
              driven by numbers from the&nbsp; developing world? </DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV>2. Taking off from Q1, is the CCWG evaluating the future 
              capacity of ICANN to be truly representative in the years to 
              come?</DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#888888>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV>arun</DIV>
              <DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>-- <BR>
              <DIV>
              <DIV dir=ltr>
              <DIV>
              <DIV dir=ltr>- 
              <DIV>@<A href="http://www.twitter.com/arunmsukumar" 
              target=_blank>arunmsukumar</A></DIV>
              <DIV>Senior Fellow, <A href="http://www.ccgdelhi.org" 
              target=_blank>Centre for Communication Governance</A></DIV>
              <DIV>National Law University, New Delhi</DIV>
              <DIV>Ph: <A href="tel:%2B91-9871943272" target=_blank 
              value="+919871943272">+91-9871943272</A></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
              <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV><SPAN>_______________________________________________<BR>Accountability-Cross-Community 
              mailing list<BR><A 
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              target=_blank>Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</A><BR><A 
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              target=_blank>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</A><BR><BR></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
            <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Accountability-Cross-Community 
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          <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV><BR>
          <FIELDSET></FIELDSET> <BR><PRE>_______________________________________________
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    clear=all>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>-- <BR>
    <DIV>
    <DIV dir=ltr>
    <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #17365d'>Gregory 
    S. Shatan </SPAN></B><B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: symbol; COLOR: #17365d">ï</SPAN></B><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #17365d'>&nbsp;</SPAN></B><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #c0504d'>Abelman 
    Frayne &amp; Schwab</SPAN></B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
    <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #365f91'>Partner</SPAN></B><SPAN><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #4f81bd'>&nbsp;</SPAN></B></SPAN><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #4f81bd'>| 
    IP | Technology | Media | Internet</SPAN></B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
    <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #17365d'>666 
    Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621</SPAN></B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
    <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>Direct</SPAN></B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>&nbsp;<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1155cc'><A 
    href="tel:212-885-9253" target=_blank 
    value="+12128859253">212-885-9253</A><SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><B>|<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN></B></SPAN><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>Main</SPAN></B><SPAN><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1155cc'><A 
    href="tel:212-949-9022" target=_blank 
    value="+12129499022">212-949-9022</A></SPAN><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
    <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>Fax</SPAN></B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>&nbsp;<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1155cc'><A 
    href="tel:212-949-9190" target=_blank 
    value="+12129499190">212-949-9190</A><SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><B>|</B><SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>Cell<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1155cc'><A 
    href="tel:917-816-6428" target=_blank 
    value="+19178166428">917-816-6428</A></SPAN><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
    <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><I><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'><A 
    href="mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com" 
    target=_blank>gsshatan@lawabel.com</A></SPAN></I></B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
    <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>ICANN-related:<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><I><A 
    href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" 
    target=_blank>gregshatanipc@gmail.com</A></I></SPAN></B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
    <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><I><SPAN 
    style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'><A 
    href="http://www.lawabel.com/" 
    target=_blank>www.lawabel.com</A></SPAN></I></B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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