<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Here is a POV to consider when writing the words "Legal Advice"<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I was researching <a href="http://joker.com">joker.com</a>.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Here is their TOS page hyperlink<br><a href="https://joker.com/index.joker?mode=page&page=terms_cond">https://joker.com/index.joker?mode=page&page=terms_cond</a><br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Read the general terms for <a href="http://joker.com">joker.com</a><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Click on individual hyperlinks, one for each suffix that <a href="http://joker.com">joker.com</a> has involvement with. Read a hyperlink.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">To my way of seeing things there is no way a legal consultant can be worth their contribution unless they look at this the Consumers end of this thing called ICANN<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Your thoughts are welcome, Dr.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Carrie Devorah<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><a href="http://www.centerforcopyrightintegrity.com">www.centerforcopyrightintegrity.com</a><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Greg Shatan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Thank you, Seun. That is exactly correct. The Legal Subteam is a conduit for information. Any decisions will be made by the full CCWG. Further, I anticipate that any significant legal advice will be transmitted directly to the CCWG by the law firms, and will not be "filtered' by the Legal Subteam.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Seun Ojedeji <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi Carrie,<br><br></div> I think that is not the appropriate way to view this....the way i understood the role of the group is that its similar to the CWG-legal committee where all they do is transmit the questions of the ccwg to the legal firm and vice verse. There is definitely not going to be any decision making at their level except those related to their meeting administration ofcourse).<br><br></div><div>I think its a tidy and effective way to interact with an external firm that is not directly involved in this process.<br></div><div><br></div>Regards<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Carrie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:carriedev@gmail.com" target="_blank">carriedev@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>7 people deciding policy affecting billions around the world one would expect contributions from persons on other committees would be welcomed. Moreso considering failure to engage more 'volunteers' and volunteer burnout.</div><div><br></div><div>Carrie Devorah</div><div><a href="http://Www.centerforcopyrightintegrity.com" target="_blank">Www.centerforcopyrightintegrity.com</a></div><div><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><div><div><br>On Mar 26, 2015, at 4:09 AM, Alice Jansen <<a href="mailto:alice.jansen@icann.org" target="_blank">alice.jansen@icann.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div>Dear León,</div>
<div>This is to confirm that Samantha Eisner has no posting rights.</div>
<div>Best regards</div>
<div>Alice </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <<a href="mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx" target="_blank">leonfelipe@sanchez.mx</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:31 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Samantha Eisner <<a href="mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org" target="_blank">Samantha.Eisner@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>ACCT-Staff <<a href="mailto:acct-staff@icann.org" target="_blank">acct-staff@icann.org</a>>, CCWG Accountability <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>>, Lisse Eberhard
<<a href="mailto:directors@omadhina.net" target="_blank">directors@omadhina.net</a>>, Kieren McCarthy <<a href="mailto:kieren@kierenmccarthy.com" target="_blank">kieren@kierenmccarthy.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Acct-Staff] [CCWG-ACCT] Legal sub-team update<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
Dear Samantha,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That should be correct. I hereby ask Staff to confirm that you DO NOT have posting privileges to the legal sub-team list.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>León</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>El 26/03/2015, a las 1:51, Samantha Eisner <<a href="mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org" target="_blank">Samantha.Eisner@icann.org</a>> escribió:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>To confirm, it is my understanding that I do not have posting rights to the sub team list either.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Kieren McCarthy <<a href="mailto:kieren@kierenmccarthy.com" target="_blank">kieren@kierenmccarthy.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 4:38 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>León Sánchez Ambía <<a href="mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx" target="_blank">leonfelipe@sanchez.mx</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>ACCT-Staff <<a href="mailto:acct-staff@icann.org" target="_blank">acct-staff@icann.org</a>>, CCWG Accountability <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>>,
Lisse Eberhard <<a href="mailto:directors@omadhina.net" target="_blank">directors@omadhina.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Legal sub-team update<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>This approach may look sound on the inside but there are two clearly very unusual aspects to it:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. A small group of people have decided that they should step outside accepted norms in the IANA transition process and been given control of a critical process. They have implemented it immediately, and are judging the validity of their decision
by how much they themselves agree with it</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. One of that small group appears to be ICANN's senior counsel. Something that is transparently a conflict of interest given that the entire process is supposed to be about gaining legal advice independent of ICANN</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Not only were these decisions made within the group and in a very short period of time with no effort to seek outside approval or input but the group hasn't even put together a reasoned explanation for why it has taken this approach.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Even if you are one of the people that have allowed themselves inside this process, surely you can see that this is a terrible precedent for no good reason.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So I would ask:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* Why? Was there any evidence that this approach was actually needed? Or was it an assumed pre-emptive reduction in transparency and accountability? How long was the actual discussion? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* What is the explanation/justification for having a member of ICANN's legal team on a committee that is specifically set up to gather legal advice independent from ICANN? How is this conflict of interest explained away?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kieren</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 2:42 PM, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx" target="_blank">leonfelipe@sanchez.mx</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex" type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Dear Eberhard,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This was discussed and agreed upon in the legal team update session we had in our morning meeting on day 2 of our Istanbul meeting and then on a later call of the legal sub-team that same day.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>León</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>El 25/03/2015, a las 23:29, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na" target="_blank">el@lisse.na</a>> escribió:</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>Am I missing something here?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When was this discussed, read twice and agreed upon?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>el<br>
<br>
--
<div>Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Mar 25, 2015, at 22:57, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <<a href="mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx" target="_blank">leonfelipe@sanchez.mx</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Dear all,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Moving forward, following the agreements made in our meeting with the wider CCWG and the legal sub team’s call on 24 March, the Legal Subteam mailing-list will, from now on, be the sole avenue
for any communications, requests and advice sent to and received from our independent legal experts.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Also as agreed during our call, mailing-list posting rights have been edited to help streamline communications. It was agreed that a compact subset of legal sub-team participants would serve
as executive team in order to make communications easier to handle between the CCWG and the law firms. Agreement was established so solely members of the legal executive team now have posting rights to this list.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">The list will remain open for anyone to observe and it will continue to be publicly archived. In the event that anyone form the larger CCWG group would like to raise a question or issue, the
question should be posted to the general list so it can be properly documented by the legal subteam and sent to the lawyers accordingly.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Questions that fall out of the scope stated in the CCWG charter will not qualify to be addressed by the independent legal experts.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">A description of the agreed scope of work, rules of engagement and working methodologies is available below. This information will be posted on our <a href="https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Legal+SubTeam" target="_blank">dedicated
wiki page </a>for full reference.</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Thanks </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Best regards</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">León</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">---</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><b>Scope of work</b></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<ul>
<li><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">Adler & Colvin will be the primary source of advice on corporate governance law and California not-for-profit law. </font></li><li><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">Sidley & Austin will be addressing i</font><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">nternational law and jurisdiction issues and any additional topic, as deemed appropriate.</font></li></ul>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><b>Rules of Engagement & Working Methodologies</b></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">COMMUNICATIONS & COORDINATION</div>
<ul style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#333333">All formal requests, including follow-up clarifications, are made in writing and communicated through the public mailing list </font></span><a href="mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org" rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(59,115,175);text-decoration:none;line-height:19.0476188659668px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank">ccwg-accountability5@icann.org</a><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#333333"><span style="line-height:19.0476188659668px"> </span><span style="line-height:19px">–</span><span style="line-height:19.0476188659668px"> public
archives available at </span></font></span><a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ccwg-accountability5/" rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(59,115,175);text-decoration:none;line-height:19.0476188659668px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ccwg-accountability5/</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:19.0476188659668px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </span></li><li><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:19.0476188659668px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">All weekly calls to be recorded, transcribed and archived in the public wiki space.</span></li><li>Law firms report to the CCWG-Accountability and receive instructions from the legal executive sub team only. Legal Executive Subteam Members include: León Sánchez (lead); Athina Fragkouli; Robin Gross; David McAuley; Sabine Meyer; Edward Morris;
Greg Shatan and Samantha Eisner (support);. </li><li>Private coordination meetings between lawyers would be acceptable and desirable.</li><li>Information should flow freely between law firms. </li><li>Should there be the need for a call between the available members of the Executive Legal Subteam and any of the law firms in order to address urgent matters without the ability to setup a public call, it will always be required to provide proper
debrief to the open list in a timely fashion. This method will be exceptional.</li><li><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span>A single mailing-list will be used. Legal sub team members who are not listed in the legal executive subteam have viewing rights to help streamline communications. P</span></span>osting
privileges should carry request privileges.</li><li>The mailing-list remains open to any observers. </li><li>Activities and requests will be documented on the dedicated wiki page - <a href="https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Legal+SubTeam" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Legal+SubTeam</a></li><li>Legal sub team and law firms coordination call will be held on Wednesdays at 15:00-16:00 UTC, starting on April 1. Calls will be open to anyone, they will be recorded, transcribed and archived in the public wiki space.</li></ul>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">REQUESTS FOR EXPERTISE</div>
<ul style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<li><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);background-color:rgb(255,254,254)">No individual outside the executive legal </span><font color="#333333">sub team should send requests to law firms.</font></li><li><font color="#333333">Law firms are to alert the legal executive sub team of any requests made by individuals outside the legal executive sub team.</font></li><li>During face-to-face meetings/calls, high level legal advice should come in real time in reply to anyone raising a question within the Charter’s scope. </li><li>Legal Executive Subteam should flag any items that are for research.</li><li>Legal Executive Subteam is expected to formulate questions into a request for distribution in PDF or WORD format to obtain legal advice. </li><li>Requests for legal advice should be numbered consecutively for reference purposes. </li><li>All requests will be archived in the public wiki space.</li></ul>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list</span><br>
<span><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a></span><br>
<span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br><div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
</font></span></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Sincerely</div>
<div>CARRIE Devorah</div>
<div>
<div>562 688 2883</div><br> <br>
<br><font size="1"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial">DISCLAIMER : </span></font></div>
<div><font size="1"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial"></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial">With the continuing crossing and interfacing of platforms both on & off line both with & without our knowledge nor approval to note nothing sent over the Internet anymore is ever private nor should be presumed to be so. If it is that much of a secret, say nothing. If you must? Take a lesson from our military- hand write the note, chew then swallow <span> </span></span></font></div>
<p> </p></div></div>
</div>