<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi Drazak,<br><br></div>As it concerns naming; I don&#39;t run any registry neither am i employed by any organisation in that line (including cctld) except being a registrant on both TLD categories plus also being an internet user. I rely a lot on things that are factually documented/proven, hence i make effort to ask for references and also ask questions that could help me understand why some have certain view. I wholeheartedly share your line of thought and i would appreciate if this helps improve the way we individually approach issues in this WG.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Drazek, Keith <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div dir="auto">
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Dear Eberhard, Akinbo and Sean,<br>
<br>
While I agree this issue requires deliberate treatment, I have a few questions in response to points raised in this thread.</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Why couldn&#39;t a subset of ccTLD members (those who have joined the ccNSO) collaborate to make the ccNSO a statutory member of ICANN? We&#39;re not talking about every registry (gTLD or ccTLD) or individual
 person who participates in ICANN becoming a direct member. </span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">That some ccTLDs choose to not join the ccNSO shouldn&#39;t prevent those who have joined from cooperating to give the ccNSO greater oversight of ICANN&#39;s Board and staff. </span><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Or
 am I missing something? </span><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Please help me understand the specific ccTLD concern in this context. </span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">If we&#39;re designing an accountability framework for ICANN and its community, how can we be expected to accommodate and incorporate the interests of self-determined outsiders other than to invite them
 to join the community and participate in its processes? </span><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">In my view, anyone with interests impacted by ICANN should get involved and not sit outside looking in.</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Also, Eberhard, I&#39;m not clear on why the legal foundation for the USG&#39;s claim on the IANA functions/root is relevant to the discussion of ICANN&#39;s </span><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">accountability
 to the community, which is the focus of this group. Perhaps that is a topic more relevant to the work of the CWG Transition? </span><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Again, I may be missing something and would welcome the dots being connected. </span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
Regards,<br>
Keith</span><br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div><div><div class="h5">
<div><br>
On Apr 15, 2015, at 2:12 PM, Adebunmi AKINBO &lt;<a href="mailto:akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com" target="_blank">akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">+1 Lisse, Otieno.
<div>-Akinbo.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Barrack Otieno <span dir="ltr">
&lt;<a href="mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com" target="_blank">otieno.barrack@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I am in agreement with Dr. Lisse,i think the issues he raises are of<br>
fundamental importance and should be looked at in detail as we move<br>
forwad. It  is better to get it right than as opposed to just focusing<br>
on a deliverable.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<div>
<div><br>
On 4/15/15, Dr Eberhard W Lisse &lt;<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na" target="_blank">el@lisse.na</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Dear Co-Chairs Thomas and Matheiu,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Can you please explain to you Co-Chair that the very point was that<br>
&gt; I need time to study the document and that I objected and still<br>
&gt; object against dealing with this in a cursory manner.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; However, since he asked, I&#39;ll write under correction, that I don&#39;t<br>
&gt; think ccTLDs can be (in) a member organization unless all 253 bind<br>
&gt; themselves to this.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have asked NUMEROUS times, to no avail, that we find out what the<br>
&gt; legal foundation of the USG&#39;s claim to the root/IANA function is.<br>
&gt; And we need to establish how this relates to each ccTLD. We may not<br>
&gt; be able to do this for all 253 (or how many they are) but there are<br>
&gt; a few broad categories we can classify them in.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; For example (and just off the cuff and decidedly incomplete)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Before RFC1951 (1994)<br>
&gt; before ICANN<br>
&gt; During ICANN<br>
&gt; IDN ccTLDs<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; But, again, I object to being put under pressure of dealing with a<br>
&gt; complex matter and document in a superficial manner.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; greetings, el<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 2015-04-15 04:16 , León Felipe Sánchez Ambía wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Dear Eberhard,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Thanks for your comments.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Which content issues did you identify in the document?  I will be<br>
&gt;&gt; happy to discuss and take back to the legal sub-team and the<br>
&gt;&gt; lawyers.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Best regards,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; León<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; El 14/04/2015, a las 7:42, Dr Eberhard Lisse &lt;<a href="mailto:el@lisse.NA" target="_blank">el@lisse.NA</a>&gt; escribió:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Dear Co-Charis,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; this is not directed against an individual or a group of individuals<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; (inside the CCWG).<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I can not participate in a meaningful deliberation on this unless I<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; have time to properly review this document, not just being fed a<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; large number of busy slides.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Never mind &quot;decision&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; There are some content issues (for example with regards to<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; membership as far as ccTLDs are concerned) which flashed by.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; This the wrong way of dealing with this, and I renew my objection for<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; the record.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; el<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 2015-04-14 13:29, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Dear Eberhard,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The slides were sent to everyone as soon as we got them.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I remind you that no substantial decision is made on any single<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; call so you don’t have to worry on having to decide on anything<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on this call.  We make second readings on substantial issues.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Best regards,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; León<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; El 14/04/2015, a las 7:25, Dr Eberhard Lisse &lt;<a href="mailto:el@lisse.NA" target="_blank">el@lisse.NA</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; escribió:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Dear Co-Chairs,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Why have the slides of the law firm not been sent to us early<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; enough to consider them, prior to being presented and discussed?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Never mind decision making.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I object to this.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; el<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse  \        / Obstetrician &amp; Gynaecologist (Saar)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:el@lisse.NA" target="_blank">el@lisse.NA</a>            / *     |   Telephone: <a href="tel:%2B264%2081%20124%206733" value="+264811246733" target="_blank">+264 81 124 6733</a> (cell)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PO Box 8421             \     /<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bachbrecht, Namibia     ;____/<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse  \        / Obstetrician &amp; Gynaecologist (Saar)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:el@lisse.NA" target="_blank">el@lisse.NA</a>            / *     |   Telephone: <a href="tel:%2B264%2081%20124%206733" value="+264811246733" target="_blank">+264 81 124 6733</a> (cell)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; PO Box 8421             \     /<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Bachbrecht, Namibia     ;____/<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
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&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
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https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse  \        / Obstetrician &amp; Gynaecologist (Saar)<br>
&gt; <a href="mailto:el@lisse.NA" target="_blank">el@lisse.NA</a>            / *     |   Telephone: <a href="tel:%2B264%2081%20124%206733" value="+264811246733" target="_blank">+264 81 124 6733</a> (cell)<br>
&gt; PO Box 8421             \     /<br>
&gt; Bachbrecht, Namibia     ;____/<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
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https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<span><font color="#888888">--<br>
Barrack O. Otieno<br>
<a href="tel:%2B254721325277" value="+254721325277" target="_blank">+254721325277</a><br>
<a href="tel:%2B254-20-2498789" value="+254202498789" target="_blank">+254-20-2498789</a><br>
Skype: barrack.otieno<br>
<a href="http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/" target="_blank">http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/</a><br>
</font></span>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><b>Evang. Akinbo A. A. Cornerstone, Nigeria.</b></div>
<div><a href="tel:%2B2348064464545" value="+2348064464545" target="_blank">+2348064464545</a>, <a href="tel:%2B2348089118151" value="+2348089118151" target="_blank">+2348089118151</a> | 2BAC511D.<br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://www.akinbo.ng" target="_blank">www.akinbo.ng</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><b>Member, Executive Board of Directors</b>, </div>
<div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">Nigeria Internet Registration Association (NiRA)</div>
<div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><a href="http://www.nira.org.ng/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">www.nira.org.ng</a> <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">|</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> </span><a href="mailto:akinbo@yips.org.ng" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target="_blank">akinbo@nira.org.ng</a></div>
</div>
<div>@niraworks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:small"><b>Acting Chief Operating Officer,</b></div>
<div style="font-size:small">DNS Africa Magazine</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><a href="http://www.dnsafrica.org/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">www.dnsafrica.org</a><span style="font-family:arial"> </span><span style="font-size:13px"> </span><span style="font-size:13px">|</span><span style="font-size:13px"> </span><a href="mailto:akinbo@dnsafrica.org" target="_blank">akinbo@dnsafrica.org</a><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">@dnsafrica</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><b><font size="2" face="arial">National Convener,</font></b></div>
<div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial">Nigerian Youth Coalition on Internet Governance (NG-YCIG)</div>
<div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial"><a href="http://www.nira.org.ng/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">www.ycig.org.ng</a></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial"><b>President,</b></div>
<div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial">Young Internet Professionals (YiPS)</div>
<div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial"><a href="http://wwwyips.org.ng/" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target="_blank">www.yips.gnbo.com.ng</a><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"> | </span><a href="mailto:akinbo@yips.org.ng" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target="_blank">akinbo@yips.org.ng</a><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>The RedHub.</b></div>
<div>12, Afonka Odebunmi Street, Lagos State.</div>
<div><a href="http://www.theredhub.org/" target="_blank">http://www.theredhub.org/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>National Focal Point ( Nigeria ) 2009-2011.</b></div>
<div>Global Youth Coalition on HIV/AIDS (a program of TakingITGlobal)</div>
<div><a href="http://www.youthaidscoalition.org" target="_blank">www.youthaidscoalition.org</a>                  <a href="http://www.takingitglobal.com" target="_blank">www.takingitglobal.com</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.iaids.org" target="_blank">www.iaids.org</a></div>
<div>About me: <a href="http://profiles.tigweb.org/pscornerstone" target="_blank">
http://profiles.tigweb.org/pscornerstone</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web:      </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
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