<div dir="ltr">hi all, Eberhard:<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 22 April 2015 at 07:25, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na" target="_blank">el@lisse.na</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<br>
Roelof, Jordan,<br>
<br>
the ccNSO is a supporting organization of ICANN and deals only with<br>
very specific issues through a Policy Development Process. Nothing<br>
more, nothing less. AND, these Policies are only binding on ccNSO<br>
members, during their membership to ccNSO, ie if someone left, no<br>
ccNSO policy would concern.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Let me ask this then --- if the FOI was to be converted to a global policy dealing with its subject matter, would that not happen through a ccNSO PDP?</div><div><br></div><div>Whatever the process, that PDP or something else, would it not be the framework that guided ICANN's action for ccTLDs regardless of their membership of the ccNSO?</div><div><br></div><div>That's what I meant by the word. Not a framework that decided how ccTLDs operate. None of us would welcome that, I don't think!</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
It is totally different from a membership organization we are<br>
discussing here.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We are talking about membership (or designator) powers exercised over ICANN to keep ICANN accountable to the Internet community, including to us. </div><div><br></div><div>Not talking about using a membership concept as a trojan horse to impose obligations on the ICANN community or its participants....</div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div>Jordan</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I also totally disagree that we are allowed to set a framework for<br>
ccTLDs. In the ISTACC call we discussed this last week.<br>
<br>
Just for the record, I may have been involved with this even since<br>
before Chris, and changing landscape doesn't mean anything with<br>
regards to the rights of a ccTLD Manager. ICANN's powers, if any,<br>
do not grow on trees.<br>
<br>
greetings, el<br>
<span class=""><br>
On 2015-04-21 20:05 , Roelof Meijer wrote:<br>
>> Unless EACH and EVERY ccTLD Manager formally joins such<br>
>> organization such organization will not have any standing. At<br>
>> all.<br>
><br>
> I have to disagree. In the situation that the conscious decision<br>
> of a ccTLD manager NOT to be a member is the sole reason for that<br>
> manager not being a member<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
><br>
> Roelof<br>
><br>
> From: Jordan Carter <<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a><br>
</span>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>>> Date: dinsdag 21 april 2015<br>
<span class="">> 20:32 Cc: Accountability Cross Community<br>
> <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
</span>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>>> Subject: Re:<br>
<span class="">> [CCWG-ACCT] Legal question<br>
><br>
> Hi all:<br>
><br>
> On 21 April 2015 at 23:25, Dr Eberhard Lisse <<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na">el@lisse.na</a><br>
</span><div><div class="h5">> <mailto:<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na">el@lisse.na</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Dear Co-Chairs,<br>
><br>
> could you please explain to the gentleman from the IPC that it is<br>
> NOT possible for ccTLD Managers, whether they are members of the<br>
> ccNSO or not to become a "member organization" (as we are<br>
> discussing here).<br>
><br>
> Unless EACH and EVERY ccTLD Manager formally joins such<br>
> organization such organization will not have any standing. At<br>
> all.<br>
><br>
><br>
> This is clearly not accurate. If this argument had any legs, then<br>
> the same could be said of the ccNSO.<br>
><br>
> ccTLD managers participate in ICANN through the ccNSO and would do<br>
> through a community mechanism that involved membership in order to<br>
> deal with ICANN and global policies, such as they are - not to<br>
> manage the bilateral relationships Eberbard mentions below.<br>
><br>
> On Chris's broader point, he has been involved with the ccNSO since<br>
> before it was formed and I have not. I do not understand the<br>
> aversion he alleges in respect of memberships. I know things are<br>
> pretty different in 2015 to what they were in 1998.<br>
><br>
> I think our job is to set up a clear and coherent framework for<br>
> ccTLDs along with the rest of the community to consider, and our<br>
> job too is to explain clearly what such a model (including any<br>
> options) would ACTUALLY as opposed to on a FUD basis, offer to and<br>
> require of members/designators or classes of members/designators --<br>
> including any issues with associations etc.<br>
><br>
> If ccTLD managers chose as a group to not participate in a scheme<br>
> that was workable, and thereby prevented meaningful accountability<br>
> reforms in ICANN, then they would be putting the IANA stewardship<br>
> transition at risk.<br>
><br>
> I don't think they'd to that lightly. But I do think that however<br>
> unlikely, the fact this could happen ( due to our non-contracted<br>
> status, in the end we ccs have the choice) does mean that the<br>
> doctrine of organisational and institutional conservatism is very<br>
> important.<br>
><br>
> Which is why I am glad to see Chris's questions assigned to the<br>
> counsel, and why I look forward to their response.<br>
><br>
><br>
> cheers Jordan<br>
</div></div>[...]<br>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
Comment: GPGTools - <a href="http://gpgtools.org" target="_blank">http://gpgtools.org</a><br>
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - <a href="http://www.enigmail.net/" target="_blank">http://www.enigmail.net/</a><br>
<br>
iQIVAwUBVTakLZcFHaN5RT+rAQLc8A/+I8H8NsIQA4X8TqjvvkYPS7KluqwTFJr5<br>
vUyX9aMnCe20tipEMhJSGKaFm5tgYvmvodM8D3mIU7n6oWRUP+9u1IYPpQPvm96T<br>
e/8FvfdI9QWZ9ERzUM8DnM22M/Wrk9Q1LQkfW6D4Ifyfbe7LQs5CGvXikqG5RUdq<br>
O8BV/VLB6XUhKsRq9iVV1XTL7kRkN6M+RQ2jYlnlk6+3aIysjvBjoOX7eT7CEMgK<br>
26SPbukmrGQJIU9o4tXdpx1PcNOCVnZGLdZhYTU+0tQjg3NM239s7UOtfWGqRVRe<br>
pYU/eO6bo2v9jZfpOT1Co7r4K9RERp+rvhd0FuBSrWJaRn6CIR1ybrw9zdQa1f6S<br>
OstYQeUPKsmQ/dibse4hdEUFYxoumUeG+InPWQC+os8BehL+pcG5ZQBPMKCho2pG<br>
7u89kyTcOgVcy+yeK5P8veB8I6SZpYN0B0iieAQDe9vUXiXLLhu26NYCCiXnEFhN<br>
HhpbgC7dFWGcgnDMadXJGIPGFH5uUyZwmvVWULvNMayVTm5T/V+es3xxSCuI7SGW<br>
UQVOC07vv8YZEwmfQgy8bZrhjtTSXY1X374hum190dL8No/HpopE/jBnTzJh0Yf/<br>
YqKxAGEq2tdBR+o7XXOc7eEvrUvzuyUQ4pjlcRvTHDDP0slsMhkFuDRkQIz1tV7b<br>
I+YNdPAaIqM=<br>
=aPmT<br>
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Jordan Carter<br><br>Chief Executive <br><b>InternetNZ</b><br><br>04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)<br><a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a> <br>Skype: jordancarter<br><br><i>A better world through a better Internet </i><br><br></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>