<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Hi Jordan, all,</div><div>thanks for the proposed alternative language. I my view this is capturing the issue unambiguously. </div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Thomas</div><div><br><br><div><span style="font-size: 13pt;">---</span></div><div><a href="http://rickert.net">rickert.net</a></div><div><br></div></div><div><br>Am 27.04.2015 um 09:25 schrieb Jordan Carter <<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>>:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">hi Avri, all<div><br></div><div>Avri: the proposal was in fact to change this, by adding the following words in the bylaw that would guide all of these reviews, as follows:</div><div><br></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">"<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Source Sans Pro';font-size:15px;white-space:pre-wrap">The final output of all reviews will be published for public comment. The Board shall consider approval and begin implementation within six months of receipt of the recommendations.</span>"</span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">That was how there would be a "reviewable" point that the other mechanisms for holding the board to account would be able to react off - the "we won't decide anything so nothing will be reviewable" risk would be removed because then they wouldn't have been acting.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">It seems to me though that we actually should preserve the current approach a little more closely, while still preserving the obligation to make a decision.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Therefore (and I'd appreciate eyes on this from Steve, Matthew, Fiona etc - the team who helped develop this) - how would this look:</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Replacing the text in the bullet pointed list at the top of 6.7.2 - this is the part that explains what we are trying to achieve.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">CURRENT: "<span id="docs-internal-guid-c3c5bdb1-f9c0-d561-902e-1fbd81f8bb93"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro';color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Require the ICANN board to approve and implement review team recommendations, including recommendations from previous reviews.</span></span>"</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><b>PROPOSED</b>: "Require the ICANN board to consider review team recommendations, including recommendations from previous reviews, and make a positive decision to approve and implement such recommendations or, if it has reasons to not do so, to set out its reasons."</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Replacing the text in the last box of the proposed bylaw that would govern all these AOC style reviews:</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">CURRENT: "<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Source Sans Pro';font-size:15px;white-space:pre-wrap">The final output of all reviews will be published for public comment. The Board shall consider approval and begin implementation within six months of receipt of the recommendations.</span>"</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><b>PROPOSED</b>: "The final output of all reviews will be published for public comment. The Board shall consider the recommendations and the public comments, and within six months of receipt of the recommendations will either approve and begin implementation, or explain the reasons in each case where there is a recommendation it wishes to defer or not implement.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Thoughts?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">cheers</div><div class="gmail_extra">Jordan</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 27 April 2015 at 14:59, Avri Doria <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#330033">
Hi,<br>
<br>
Ok, at this point I no longer think I am confused. Thanks for the
elucidations.<br>
<br>
My current impression is that we have not changed anything with
respect to AOC type review recommendations, They will essentially
remain the way it they are now. The improvement is that the same
reconsideration and IRP measures will have now, will be improved.
And of course there is the new non-confidence measure at the end of
the road.<br>
<br>
While strengthening the redress measures we are not doing anything
specific to strengthen the uptake of AOC type review
recommendations. If that is what we have decided, I am ok with it,
as long as we do not claim that we have added anything to the
approval of reports more than we have added to anything else. We
probably should remove the line that says<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Require the ICANN board to approve and
implement review team recommendations, including<br>
recommendations from previous reviews.</p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Since that is not the case as far as I can tell. What will
continue to happen is that the review teams will submit the report,
there will be a public comment period, and then the Board will
decide what it wants to do with the recommendations. And if the
community does not like it, they can, assuming they have standing,
can request reconsideration, CEP and IRP. <br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<div>On 26-Apr-15 17:30, Jordan Carter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">To add to Jonathan's point, Avri - I think the new
language creating a positive obligation on the Board to "approve
and implement review team recommendations,
including recommendations from previous reviews." isn't just
reinforcing the status quo. If the Board fails to do this, it
then goes up the reconsideration/review thing. this is how we
worked around the "what if they just don't decide anything?"
problem.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers</div>
<div>Jordan</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 27 April 2015 at 07:29, Jonathan
Zuck <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:JZuck@actonline.org" target="_blank">JZuck@actonline.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">I'm
saying that both adoption and rejection are reviewable
decisions. Inaction would be the failure to make a
decision.<br>
<br>
Sent from my Windows Phone</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<hr>
<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">From:
</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">Avri Doria</a></span><br>
<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">Sent:
</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">4/26/2015
2:41 PM</span><br>
<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">To:
</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a></span><br>
<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">Subject:
</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Re:
[CCWG-ACCT] the power to enforce AOC type (6.7)
recommendations</span><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi,<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Does
that help?</span></blockquote>
<br>
Apologies, but I think I remain confused. <br>
<br>
I understand that we still have the ultimate
accountability function.<br>
Still don't know if there is any other power.<br>
<br>
First, as far as I remember, we did not get the
Power to force a decision against complete inaction.<br>
<br>
Also I do not believe that it would be the case that
there was complete inaction. I am sure that the
Board would review the various recommendations of
the AOC type review teams. Most reviews contain
many recommendations, and the Board could accept
some and reject others.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">because
once the board has made a decision, we are
putting in accountability mechanisms to question
that decision</span></blockquote>
<br>
Do you mean reconsideration and IRP? <br>
<br>
thanks<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<div>On 26-Apr-15 14:03, Jonathan Zuck wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Avri,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
completely agree that this is new obligation
and that it must find its way into the
bylaws.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">As
for your other question, I think it’s not a
question of giving power to a review team
but rather to the community to induce the
board to accept recommendations from a
review team.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">To
accomplish that, all we need to do an ensure
that the board actually considers the
recommendations and makes a decision about
them, any decision because once the board
has made a decision, we are putting in
accountability mechanisms to question that
decision. The whole that currently exist is
in cases of complete
<i>inaction</i> on the part of the board.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The
best analogy I think can of at the moment is
the FTC. The FTC has the ability to hold
companies to their promises. Getting
companies to post privacy policies is the
equivalent of getting them to promise
something at which point, they are then
subject to FTC review.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Does
that help?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jonathan</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Avri Doria<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 26, 2015 1:29
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCWG-ACCT] the pwoer to
enforce AOC type (6.7) recommendations</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
<br>
In the draft recommendations (6.7.2):<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Require the ICANN board
to approve and implement review team
recommendations, including<br>
recommendations from previous reviews.</p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">The final output of all
reviews will be published for public
comment.<br>
The Board shall consider approval and begin
implementation within<br>
six months of receipt of the
recommendations.</p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br>
We discussed this as a putting a greater
obligation onf the Board than it currently
has. But I do not understand how that is the
case. At this point, it is still up to the
Board to agree or not.
<br>
<br>
In responding to a CWG-IANA based question
from an NCSG member on how the IANA Function
Review recommendation for a RFP, if such were
to ever happen, would be respected by the
ICANN Board? Couldn't they just ignore it.
<br>
<br>
I did not have a response and am wondering
what part of the community powers I am
forgetting.<br>
<br>
This points to the more general question about
any recommendation of an AOC type review.<br>
<br>
Other than the no-confidence removal of the
Board (6.6.6. got to love the numer!), is
there anything that gives the AOC-Like review
recommendations the sort of Community powers
that we have discussed having for budgets,
strategy & operational plans (6.6.2) ? Is
it possible to include Board rejection of AOC
type review recommendations under the category
of decision that can be overruled by members?
Or is that class of decsion restricted by
statute?<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center">
<hr style="color:rgb(144,144,144)" align="center" noshade="" size="1" width="99%">
</div>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in 11.25pt 0in 6pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.avast.com/" target="_blank"><span style="border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><ATT-4.dat></span></a></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0.75pt">
<p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(61,77,90)">This
email has been checked for viruses
by Avast antivirus software.
<br>
<a href="http://www.avast.com/" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a>
</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<hr style="border:none;color:rgb(144,144,144);background-color:rgb(176,176,176);min-height:1px;width:99%">
<table style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="border:none;padding:0px 15px 0px 8px"><a href="http://www.avast.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast logo" border="0">
</a></td>
<td>
<p style="color:rgb(61,77,90);font-family:Calibri,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:12pt">This
email has been checked for viruses by
Avast antivirus software. <br>
<a href="http://www.avast.com/" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a> </p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Jordan Carter<br>
<br>
Chief Executive <br>
<b>InternetNZ</b><br>
<br>
<a href="tel:04%20495%202118" value="+6444952118" target="_blank">04 495 2118</a> (office) | <a href="tel:%2B64%2021%20442%20649" value="+6421442649" target="_blank">+64 21 442 649</a> (mob)<br>
<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>
<br>
Skype: jordancarter<br>
<br>
<i>A better world through a better Internet </i><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br><br>
<hr style="border:none;color:rgb(144,144,144);background-color:rgb(176,176,176);min-height:1px;width:99%">
<table style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="border:none;padding:0px 15px 0px 8px">
<a href="http://www.avast.com/" target="_blank">
<img border="0" src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast logo">
</a>
</td>
<td>
<p style="color:rgb(61,77,90);font-family:Calibri,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:12pt">
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
<br><a href="http://www.avast.com/" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a>
</p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<br>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Jordan Carter<br><br>Chief Executive <br><b>InternetNZ</b><br><br><a href="tel:04%20495%202118" value="+6444952118" target="_blank">04 495 2118</a> (office) | <a href="tel:%2B64%2021%20442%20649" value="+6421442649" target="_blank">+64 21 442 649</a> (mob)<br><a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a> <br>Skype: jordancarter<br><br><i>A better world through a better Internet </i><br><br></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>