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<div>I think I agree with Thomas on this. There’s going to be plenty of advice coming out of AC s that gets rejected for a variety of reasons. We just need to insure we have a process in place to contest it in what I imagine will be the rare instance in which
the community disagrees.</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Thomas Rickert<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, April 27, 2015 at 12:48 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Matthew Shears<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Avri Doria, Accountability Cross Community<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Hi, Re: the power to enforce AOC type (6.7) recommendations<br>
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">All,</div>
<div class="">it was my understanding that the group would deem it sufficient for the Board to be transparent about where they are with recommendations they get. Establishing another process for cases where recommendations are rejected seems to me a bit over
the top. I would assume the Board would not take a decision to reject advice lightly. If it does, there might be good reason and no escalation is needed. Should the Board choose not to adopt recommendations against the community’s wish, the community has more
powers and can make sure it gets its will. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In the interest of not making processes too complex, I would still be happy with the language offered by Jordan. If you wish a community process, I suggest we make a public comment period mandatory _prior_ to the rejection of recommendations.
The Board should then provide a rationale for its intent to reject recommendations, put it out for public comment and then make a final determination. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best,</div>
<div class="">Thomas</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">Am 27.04.2015 um 17:44 schrieb Matthew Shears <<a href="mailto:mshears@cdt.org" class="">mshears@cdt.org</a>>:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">While I like Jordan's wording I have to say that I have the same reservations as Avri and support the inclusion of a community process to understand and bridge any issues that arise.<br class="">
<br class="">
Matthew<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/27/2015 3:42 PM, Avri Doria wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:553E4AE1.3010704@acm.org" type="cite" class="">Hi,<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks for these suggestions. I think it offers a good path tto resolving the issue<br class="">
<br class="">
But, personally I do no think that it goes far enough. Just having the Board give it reasons for rejection is not sufficient. Those reasons could be specious, indicate a misunderstanding of the recommendation or be wrong about implementation means and methods.
I think that if they are going to reject, they need to not only give their resons, but need to initiate a community process to deal with the issue, whatever it may be. Otherwise, it might sit and fester for another 5 years.<br class="">
<br class="">
avri<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 27-Apr-15 03:25, Jordan Carter wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAK2bTy9oG+SJoH9e2mntqidAs+QRsCosOC+MTTXt2Bk9SQRCpg@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">hi Avri, all
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Avri: the proposal was in fact to change this, by adding the following words in the bylaw that would guide all of these reviews, as follows:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">"<span style="" class="">The final output of all reviews will be published for public comment. The Board shall consider approval and begin implementation within six months of receipt of
the recommendations.</span>"</span></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">That was how there would be a "reviewable" point that the other mechanisms for holding the board to account would be able to react off - the "we won't decide anything so nothing will be reviewable" risk would be removed because then
they wouldn't have been acting.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">It seems to me though that we actually should preserve the current approach a little more closely, while still preserving the obligation to make a decision.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Therefore (and I'd appreciate eyes on this from Steve, Matthew, Fiona etc - the team who helped develop this) - how would this look:</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Replacing the text in the bullet pointed list at the top of 6.7.2 - this is the part that explains what we are trying to achieve.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">CURRENT: "<span id="docs-internal-guid-c3c5bdb1-f9c0-d561-902e-1fbd81f8bb93" class=""><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:'Source Sans
Pro';color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">Require
the ICANN board to approve and implement review team recommendations, including recommendations from previous reviews.</span></span>"</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><b class="">PROPOSED</b>: "Require the ICANN board to consider review team recommendations, including recommendations from previous reviews, and make a positive decision to approve and implement such recommendations or, if it has reasons
to not do so, to set out its reasons."</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Replacing the text in the last box of the proposed bylaw that would govern all these AOC style reviews:</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">CURRENT: "<span style="" class="">The final output of all reviews will be published for public comment. The Board shall consider approval and begin implementation within six months of receipt of the recommendations.</span>"</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><b class="">PROPOSED</b>: "The final output of all reviews will be published for public comment. The Board shall consider the recommendations and the public comments, and within six months of receipt of the recommendations will either
approve and begin implementation, or explain the reasons in each case where there is a recommendation it wishes to defer or not implement.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Thoughts?</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">cheers</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Jordan</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On 27 April 2015 at 14:59, Avri Doria <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank" class="">avri@acm.org</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#330033" class="">Hi,<br class="">
<br class="">
Ok, at this point I no longer think I am confused. Thanks for the elucidations.<br class="">
<br class="">
My current impression is that we have not changed anything with respect to AOC type review recommendations, They will essentially remain the way it they are now. The improvement is that the same reconsideration and IRP measures will have now, will be improved.
And of course there is the new non-confidence measure at the end of the road.<br class="">
<br class="">
While strengthening the redress measures we are not doing anything specific to strengthen the uptake of AOC type review recommendations. If that is what we have decided, I am ok with it, as long as we do not claim that we have added anything to the approval
of reports more than we have added to anything else. We probably should remove the line that says<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Require the ICANN board to approve and implement review team recommendations, including<br class="">
recommendations from previous reviews.</p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Since that is not the case as far as I can tell. What will continue to happen is that the review teams will submit the report, there will be a public comment period, and then the Board will decide what it wants to do with the recommendations. And if the
community does not like it, they can, assuming they have standing, can request reconsideration, CEP and IRP.
<br class="">
<br class="">
avri<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">On 26-Apr-15 17:30, Jordan Carter wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">To add to Jonathan's point, Avri - I think the new language creating a positive obligation on the Board to "approve and implement review team recommendations, including recommendations from previous reviews." isn't just reinforcing the
status quo. If the Board fails to do this, it then goes up the reconsideration/review thing. this is how we worked around the "what if they just don't decide anything?" problem.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">cheers</div>
<div class="">Jordan</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On 27 April 2015 at 07:29, Jonathan Zuck <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:JZuck@actonline.org" target="_blank" class="">JZuck@actonline.org</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" class="">I'm saying that both adoption and rejection are reviewable decisions. Inaction would be the failure to make a decision.<br class="">
<br class="">
Sent from my Windows Phone</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<hr class="">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;" class="">From:
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank" class="">Avri Doria</a></span><br class="">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class="">4/26/2015 2:41 PM</span><br class="">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;" class="">To:
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a></span><br class="">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Re: [CCWG-ACCT] the power to enforce AOC type (6.7) recommendations</span><br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi,<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Does that help?</span></blockquote>
<br class="">
Apologies, but I think I remain confused. <br class="">
<br class="">
I understand that we still have the ultimate accountability function.<br class="">
Still don't know if there is any other power.<br class="">
<br class="">
First, as far as I remember, we did not get the Power to force a decision against complete inaction.<br class="">
<br class="">
Also I do not believe that it would be the case that there was complete inaction. I am sure that the Board would review the various recommendations of the AOC type review teams. Most reviews contain many recommendations, and the Board could accept some and
reject others.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">because once the board has made a decision, we are putting in accountability mechanisms to question that decision</span></blockquote>
<br class="">
Do you mean reconsideration and IRP? <br class="">
<br class="">
thanks<br class="">
avri<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">On 26-Apr-15 14:03, Jonathan Zuck wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Avri,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I completely agree that this is new obligation and that it must find its way into the bylaws.</span></p>
<div class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">As for your other question, I think it’s not a question of giving power to a review team but rather to the community to induce the board
to accept recommendations from a review team.</span></p>
<div class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">To accomplish that, all we need to do an ensure that the board actually considers the recommendations and makes a decision about them, any
decision because once the board has made a decision, we are putting in accountability mechanisms to question that decision. The whole that currently exist is in cases of complete
<i class="">inaction</i> on the part of the board.</span></p>
<div class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The best analogy I think can of at the moment is the FTC. The FTC has the ability to hold companies to their promises. Getting companies
to post privacy policies is the equivalent of getting them to promise something at which point, they are then subject to FTC review.</span></p>
<div class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Does that help?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Jonathan</span></p>
<div class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style:solid
none
none;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt
0in 0in" class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Avri Doria<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Sunday, April 26, 2015 1:29 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> [CCWG-ACCT] the pwoer to enforce AOC type (6.7) recommendations</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<br class="">
<br class="">
In the draft recommendations (6.7.2):<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Require the ICANN board to approve and implement review team recommendations, including<br class="">
recommendations from previous reviews.</p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
<br class="">
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">The final output of all reviews will be published for public comment.<br class="">
The Board shall consider approval and begin implementation within<br class="">
six months of receipt of the recommendations.</p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br class="">
We discussed this as a putting a greater obligation onf the Board than it currently has. But I do not understand how that is the case. At this point, it is still up to the Board to agree or not.
<br class="">
<br class="">
In responding to a CWG-IANA based question from an NCSG member on how the IANA Function Review recommendation for a RFP, if such were to ever happen, would be respected by the ICANN Board? Couldn't they just ignore it.
<br class="">
<br class="">
I did not have a response and am wondering what part of the community powers I am forgetting.<br class="">
<br class="">
This points to the more general question about any recommendation of an AOC type review.<br class="">
<br class="">
Other than the no-confidence removal of the Board (6.6.6. got to love the numer!), is there anything that gives the AOC-Like review recommendations the sort of Community powers that we have discussed having for budgets, strategy & operational plans (6.6.2)
? Is it possible to include Board rejection of AOC type review recommendations under the category of decision that can be overruled by members? Or is that class of decsion restricted by statute?<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks<br class="">
<br class="">
avri<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
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<pre wrap="" class="">_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Matthew Shears
Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
+ 44 (0)771 247 2987</pre>
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