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<div>+1 Greg</div>
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<div>The long diatribes in this thread represent some sort of warped beauty contest between the board the community and, in my opinion, are
<i>totally</i> irrelevant. Here’s the point:</div>
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<li>Everyone agrees (or says they do) that the board should be accountable to the community</li><li>Without enforceability this is no accountability.</li></ol>
<div>That’s it. Period. The rest is kabuki theater. Putting the word accountability in the name of some initiative doesn’t mean any accountability has actually been created. If you cannot be “held to account” there is no accountability. Why are we making this
so complicated? The rest is implementation details.</div>
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<div>Jonathan</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Greg Shatan<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 7:34 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Chris Disspain<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Accountability Cross Community<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Question regarding UAs<br>
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<div>Chris,
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<div>Though you say that Becky is spot on, you seemed to miss her point-- that this is not about litigation, this is about checks and balances.</div>
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<div>If the present were as utopian as you say it is, we would not be having this conversation.</div>
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<div>If the future were likely to be as dystopian as you project it to be, no one in their right mind would propose what the CCWG is proposing. Indeed, no one would ever have a membership non-profit, this future, where we have a rogue board and a litigation-happy
community, at least one of which seems to be getting it utterly wrong as to ICANN's mission, seems straight out of "Mad Max."</div>
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<div>The creation of an a legally viable set of accountability measures does not spell the end of the multi stakeholder model, it heralds its maturation. If the ICANN community is not ready to take on the responsibilities of membership (where members sit above
the board in certain circumstances) we have bigger problems than this. Maybe we're not ready for the NTIA to cut the (umbilical) cord. Thankfully, I don't believe that's the case -- I think we are ready, willing and able and ICANN the corporation and ICANN
the community will both be the better for it. As will the Internet.</div>
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<div>Greg<span></span><br>
<br>
On Wednesday, May 20, 2015, Chris Disspain <<a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au">ceo@auda.org.au</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="font-family:'Verdana';font-size:13px;color:rgb(102,102,102)"><font color="#444444">Becky, Keith, Jordan, All,</font>
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<div><font color="#444444">Thank you. I think Becky is spot on and has illustrated to me that I am not being as clear as I need to be.</font></div>
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<div><font color="#444444">First, let’s be clear what we mean by “the Board’s responsibility to act in the best interests of the corporation”. The best interests of the corporation are defined by ICANN’s mission. And the fiduciary duty of the Board means (as
Sidley have said in one of their memos) that Directors are obligated by these duties to disregard a process or decisions that do not comply with law or the mission or core purpose of ICANN as articulated in the bylaws. This in turn means that the community,
even with bylaw or contractual provisions, cannot compel the board to act in a manner contrary to the duties.</font></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"> </span></div>
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<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font color="#444444">Second, I would like to use a step-by-step scenario to explain where my concerns lie. Under the CCWG’s currently proposed mechanisms:</font></div>
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<div style="text-indent:0px;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">1. The community, pursuant to powers defined in a “fundamental bylaw”, and through a vote of that meeting the required threshold for
</span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);white-space:pre-wrap"></span><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">support, directs the Board to do X</span></div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">2. The Board refuses to do X because it maintains that X is outside of the mission of ICANN</span></div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">3. The community triggers escalation mechanisms</span></div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">4. Escalation proceeds to binding arbitration (as defined by another fundamental bylaw)</span></div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">5. The arbitrator finds in favour of the community and directs ICANN to do X</span></div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">6. The Board refuses to act, citing, again, that it believes the action is outside of ICANN’s mission</span></div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">7. After the necessary community votes etc., the community now heads to court. In the State of California.</span></div>
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<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font color="#444444">As I understand it, the role of the court in this scenario would be to determine whether the Board is acting in a way that is serving the public interest within ICANN’s mission. It would not be to decide whether,
on balance, the community was ‘more right’ than the Board. </font></div>
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</font></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font color="#444444">Right now as a global multi-stakeholder body we decide the nuances of the meaning of ICANN’s mission and the way ICANN acts under that mission by using the multi-stakeholder process and by compromise
and nuanced decision making.</font></div>
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</font></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font color="#444444">If we agree to the CCWG recommendations we will not be handing ultimate authority to the members but rather we will be handing ultimate authority to a state based American court and allowing it to make
binding and precedent setting decisions about the interpretation of ICANN’s mission. </font></div>
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</font></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font color="#444444">Does the ICANN community</font><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"> really want the specific nuances of ICANN’s mission to be held up to scrutiny and have decisions made, at the highest level, through
such a mechanism? Whilst that may give comfort to, for example, US members of the intellectual property community or US listed registries, it gives me no comfort whatsoever.</span></div>
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<p>Cheers,</p>
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<p>Chris Disspain<span> </span><span>|</span><span> </span>Chief Executive Officer</p>
<p>.au Domain Administration Ltd</p>
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<div>On 21 May 2015, at 07:51 , Burr, Becky <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Becky.Burr@neustar.biz');" target="_blank">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div><font face="Arial"><font>The “enforceability" issue is not about litigation at all, and it isn</font>’<font>t really about </font>whether the Board or some newly invented group is more likely to get it right<font>. Rather, it</font>’s about checks and
balances. <font>Without the membership structure, the revised bylaws that empower the community to block certain actions, for example, are by definition advisory – they impose no<span> </span><i><b>legal</b></i><span> </span>obligation whatsoever on the Board
and staff. </font>I don’t dispute that the Board would have a compelling interest in respecting community input, but as a legal matter without the membership structure,<font> the Board would be </font><b>required</b><font> to treat any community vote to
block, for example, as merely advisory and would have an affirmative obligation to do what it concludes is consistent with its fiduciary duty. The membership model affirmatively shifts some of that fiduciary responsibility to the community. It’s not a statement
of who is right or wrong, but who has authority. </font></font><font style="font-family:Arial">Steve raises a reasonable question about how the members/unincorporated associations are accountable to their respective communities. But IMHO, the legitimate
questions and concerns in this debate are getting obscured by </font><font style="font-family:Arial">polarizing language and assertions that it’s inappropriate to express a particular point of view.</font></div>
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<div><font face="Arial"><font>The argument that there are no examples of situations </font>that did result or would have resulted in the community acting as one against an action or decision of the ICANN Board.<font>” </font><font>The community has never had
any authority or tool to do so, so the fact that it never has is irrelevant and the assertion that it would not have is speculation. I certainly would have tried to get the community to overturn the Board’s decision to abandon the substantive standard for
IRPs in favor of the “good faith” test. As it happens, none of the existing review and redress mechanisms would have worked in that case, and they probably </font><font>wouldn’t work in the future either.</font></font></div>
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<span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">J. Beckwith Burr<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(6, 134, 88);">Neustar, Inc. /</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From:<span> </span></span>Steve DelBianco <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sdelbianco@netchoice.org');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">sdelbianco@netchoice.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date:<span> </span></span>Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 12:37 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To:<span> </span></span>"Chartier, Mike S" <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mike.s.chartier@intel.com');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mike.s.chartier@intel.com</a>>, Steve Crocker <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','steve@shinkuro.com');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">steve@shinkuro.com</a>>,
Keith Drazek <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kdrazek@verisign.com');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:<span> </span></span>Accountability Community <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community@icann.org');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:<span> </span></span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Question regarding UAs<br>
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<div>I don’t think there’s any question that the Board’s primary duty (not their only duty) is to ICANN the Corporation. In addition to Mike’s citation of ICANN bylaws Section 7 (below), see ICANN’s Management Operating Principles (2008): </div>
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<div>"The third and perhaps most critical point of tension is between the accountability to the participating community to perform functions in keeping with the expectations of the community and the corporate and legal responsibilities of the Board to meet
its fiduciary obligations.”</div>
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<div>Source: <span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial"> ICANN Accountability & Transparency Frameworks and Principles, Jan-2008, p.5, at<span> </span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_en_system_files_files_acct-2Dtrans-2Dframeworks-2Dprinciples-2D10jan08-2Den.pdf&d=AwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=N94BFwt7XlN1luKY2YsAlg92HkXfJ8UfYuQCH-3B3bY&s=-nHIJ38MbHZo2QiXUiLPqBi6YeaesFEbRqTO3RL3Jew&e=" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt">https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/acct-trans-frameworks-principles-10jan08-en.pdf</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue"> </span></div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From:<span> </span></span>"Chartier, Mike S"<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date:<span> </span></span>Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 9:56 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To:<span> </span></span>Steve Crocker, Keith Drazek<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:<span> </span></span>Accountability Cross Community<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:<span> </span></span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Question regarding UAs<br>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">No comment on actual practice, but from a textual basis (which is what matters now since we are debating new text), I can’t see any inconsistency between the following
statements:<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">“</span><span lang="EN" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Directors shall serve as individuals who have the duty to act in what they
reasonably believe are the best interests of ICANN and not as representatives of the entity that selected them, their employers, or any other organizations or constituencies.</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">”<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">“</span>the ICANN Board, which has a fiduciary obligation to first serve the interests of the corporation,<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">”</span><span lang="EN" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
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<a name="14d742795b7ca545__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><u></u> <u></u></span></a></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><span> </span>[<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Steve Crocker<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span> </span>Drazek, Keith<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span> </span>Accountability Cross Community<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Question regarding UAs<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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I didn’t take it personally. I took it as a factually inaccurate statement that creates misunderstanding. Future boards are bound by the same rules as the past and current boards. The language you used is taken by many as a basis for believing there is a
significant difference in alignment toward public responsibility between the ICANN Board and some newly invented grouping of community members. It ain’t so and it’s inappropriate to suggest so.<u></u><u></u></div>
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Steve<u></u><u></u></div>
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On May 20, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Drazek, Keith <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kdrazek@verisign.com');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Steve,</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">With all due respect, I think you’re taking this too personally and/or making it too personal. This is not about the current ICANN Board.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">None of us know what future ICANN Boards will do, or what future ICANN Boards will permit ICANN’s management to do. Will future Boards always exercise appropriate oversight
over management? Could there be instances where ICANN’s legal counsel advises a future Board to make a decision that is counter to the interests of the community to protect the financial interests of the corporation?</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I see the proposed community membership structure simply as a check on the power of the Board, nothing more. It’s not about “controlling” or replacing the Board. The Board
has its legitimate function, but its decisions cannot be unchallengeable. The community must have the ability to tell the Board it got a decision wrong and to enforce the will of the multi-stakeholder community in rare/limited instances and based on a very
high threshold of community agreement/consensus.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I would certainly trust the proposed community members, representing their SOs and ACs, to be balanced, inclusive and trustworthy in protecting the interests of the overall
community -- in their role as the aforementioned check on the powers of the Board. Not as a replacement.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Would you trust a future Board of sixteen unknown individuals more than you trust the multi-stakeholder, bottom-up, consensus-based community and process? It appears so.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I stand by and reaffirm my previous email. I hope my clarification helps.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Sincerely,</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Keith</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Steve Crocker [<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','steve@shinkuro.com');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mailto:steve@shinkuro.com</span></a>]<span> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Wednesday, May 20, 2015 8:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span> </span>Drazek, Keith<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span> </span>Stephen D. Crocker; Chris Disspain; Accountability Cross Community;<span> </span><a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mshears@cdt.org');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mshears@cdt.org</span></a>;<span> </span><a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','egmorris1@toast.net');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">egmorris1@toast.net</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Question regarding UAs</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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On May 20, 2015, at 7:44 AM, Drazek, Keith <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kdrazek@verisign.com');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">kdrazek@verisign.com</span></a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div>
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Hi Chris,<u></u><u></u></div>
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I think there's a fundamental flaw in your assessment. You appear to be looking at this question through the lens of the past and present, where NTIA holds the enforcement function ("enforceability") through its ability to rebid and transfer the IANA functions
contract if the ICANN Board and management acts inappropriately. That is the existing and necessary check on the Board's decision-making power. <u></u><u></u></div>
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Without NTIA in its current role, the community MUST have the ability to check the Board's power, and the only way to secure that check is to create legal enforceability. Otherwise, the Board has ultimate authority, even if its decisions are inconsistent with
the interests and desires of the community ICANN is supposed to serve.<u></u><u></u></div>
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You are proposing a transfer of power from NTIA to the ICANN Board, which has a fiduciary obligation to first serve the interests of the corporation. Alternatively, proponents of legal enforceability are in favor of transferring final authority to ICANN's multi-stakeholder
community.<u></u><u></u></div>
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Keith, Edward and Edward,<u></u><u></u></div>
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We have covered the point above several times and it’s long past time to stop throwing this half-trust around. Yes, ICANN is legally a corporation, and, yes, directors of a corporation have a duty to protect the corporation. But that generality has a far
different meaning in a for profit corporation like Verisign than it does in a not-for-profit public benefit corporation like ICANN. The directors are obliged to pursue the purpose and mission stated in the incorporation papers and the bylaws. The directors
serve the community, and we do so by exercising oversight over the corporation toward that end.<u></u><u></u></div>
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There will always be differences of opinion about the particular details, but those sorts of differences of opinion will arise in *any* governance model. The prevailing assumption in much of the correspondence on this list is that the proposed members will
somehow be more balanced, more inclusive and more trustworthy in protecting the interests of the overall community than the ICANN Board is. That’s simply false. And I think you know that it is.<u></u><u></u></div>
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Please correct yourself and apologize.<u></u><u></u></div>
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Thanks,<u></u><u></u></div>
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Steve<u></u><u></u></div>
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We should all be looking at this through the lens of the future, when NTIA no longer holds the tether and is only participating through the GAC. How do we, the multi-stakeholder community, ensure that ICANN and its future Boards and management are truly accountable
once the NTIA back-stop is gone? <u></u><u></u></div>
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The answer is to ensure the Board's decisions, in very limited areas, can be challenged and overturned by a significant majority of the community. We need to protect against the "catastrophic" scenario you referenced. According to our independent legal advisors,
the best (and perhaps only) way to guarantee this is through legal enforceability. <u></u><u></u></div>
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You asked, <i>"Is addressing this most unlikely scenario worth the significant structural changes a membership model would require?"<span> </span></i>I believe the answer is yes. Not only worth it, but necessary.<u></u><u></u></div>
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Regards,<u></u><u></u></div>
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Keith<u></u><u></u></div>
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On May 20, 2015, at 2:40 AM, Chris Disspain <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ceo@auda.org.au');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ceo@auda.org.au</span></a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">For clarity, the last sentence of paragraph 8 below should read:</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">"However, I cannot think of a single example of a failure throughout the history of ICANN that did result or would have resulted in the community acting as one against
an action or decision of the ICANN Board."</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Chris</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">On 20 May 2015, at 16:13 , Chris Disspain <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ceo@auda.org.au');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ceo@auda.org.au</span></a>>
wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">Jordan, All,</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">Thank you Jordan, for attempting to bring some focus to the current discussion about the UA model, membership structures and all of the related issues.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">First of all, I want to acknowledge that I concur with you on a number points.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">I agree that we need to develop a model that disrupts ICANN’s operation as little as possible. We can argue about how much disruption is either possible or preferable,
but the principle is agreed. </span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">I also agree that levels of accountability are not “up to scratch” and, irrespective of the model we arrive at post-transition, these need to be improved. Many of the improvements
proposed by the CCWG: to the IRP, reconsideration mechanisms and the role of the ombudsman, the introduction of fundamental bylaws and binding arbitration, and the empowerment of the community to spill the ICANN Board, are also supported. </span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">However, where I disagree with you is in respect to the absolute need for an <i>additional</i> mechanism, to supersede the current IANA functions contract, in order to
ensure that the community can ‘control’ the Board because it has the right to bring a legal action in a US court. </span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">I disagree with the characterisation that the purpose of the CCWG’s work is to wrest “control” from the ICANN Board and deliver it to the community. From your email, I
gather that you are fundamentally tying the concept of control to “enforceability”, neither of which are goals for the current process. Rather, I believe we are aiming to deliver a structure where ICANN and its Board are held accountable to the community,
via the number of improvements I mentioned above.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">The need to assert absolute “control” or enforceability could only arise in the most catastrophic of circumstances. If we assume a situation where proposed mechanisms for
escalation, independent review, <i>binding </i>arbitration and direct instruction by the SOs and ACs are not acknowledged by ICANN, wouldn’t the entire multi-stakeholder model be irreparably broken? Is addressing this most unlikely scenario worth the significant
structural changes a membership model would require? </span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">Further, you refer to a “long list” of community concerns about ICANN’s current operations. I wonder whether these concerns are actually held by individuals (or individual
constituencies) on particular issues and have been aggregated in to a larger picture of overall community dissatisfaction? Concerns by distinct groups on particular topics can certainly be dealt with by the increased robustness proposed to ICANN’s bylaws and
operations.<span> </span>However, I cannot think of a single example of a failure throughout the history of ICANN that did result or would have resulted in the community as one against an action or decision of the ICANN Board. </span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">To be clear – I am 100% supportive of improvements to accountability. I believe that the CCWG has initiated extremely useful work in identifying these mechanisms.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">I remain unconvinced regarding the argument that accountability=control=enforceability, and the subsequent recommendations of the CCWG that arise from this assumption.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(148, 67, 251);">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(148, 67, 251);">Chris</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">On 20 May 2015, at 15:33 , Jordan Carter <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jordan@internetnz.net.nz');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</span></a>>
wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">We need legal persons to be members of ICANN.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">They can be individual humans or they can be organisations.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">UAs are the lightest touch, most easily controlled, non-human form of person that can fit this mould.</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">I do not understand the propensity of parts of our community to over-complicate things that look reasonably straight forward from other points of view. Has ICANN always
been like this? (Answers own question - it can't have been, otherwise it would never be organised the way it is today....)</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">cheers</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Jordan</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">On 20 May 2015 at 17:21, Alan Greenberg<span> </span><<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</span></a>><span> </span>wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Avri, I think that you are generally correct. We are putting this entire infrastructure in place because we want to be able to take ICANN or the Board to court if they
do not follow the rules. I tend to agree with the auDA comment that if it ever gets to that stage, we are REALLY in trouble, and a simple court decision is not likelt to fix it.<br>
<br>
But that nothwithstanding, we supposedly ned that UA because they can take legal action. But if the UA representatives do not listen to the SO/AC. the SO/AC cannot take that rep to court, because the SO/AC has no legal persona. So we are again left with a discontinuity
where something is largely unenforceable and we have to take it on faith that they will do the right thing.<br>
<br>
Of course, the UA reps and the Board members we select are basically drawn from the same pool, perhaps separated by a few years.<br>
<br>
The difference between a Board member and a UA rep is the Board member has a duty to the corporation, and the UA rep can, in theory, be required to take instruction from the SO/AC. But enforcing that theory may be the rub.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
<br>
<span>Alan</span></span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>
<br>
At 20/05/2015 12:41 AM, Avri Doria wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Hi,<br>
<br>
I think I understand the argument about members becoming that to which<br>
ICANN, and its Board, are responsible and accountable. From that<br>
perspective it sounds really good.<br>
<br>
What I have having trouble understanding is an accountability structure<br>
were there is a discontinuity between the SOAC and the UA. If each of<br>
the Board designating SOAC were the UA, it think I would understand.<br>
But I just do not see how the UA are accountable to the people and<br>
organizations that participate in each of the SOAC. Yes, the SOAC<br>
designates it UA representative, but how is (s)electing one of these any<br>
more accountable than (s)electing the Board as we do now. Don't we just<br>
move the perceived/possible unaccountability down a layer in the hierarchy?<br>
<br>
I think I am as comfortable with complexity as the next person. And I<br>
understand how in computer science any problem can solved by adding<br>
another layer of indirection, but in this case the extra layer we are<br>
creating does not seem to really be accountable to anyone but itself,<br>
except by (s)election procedures.<br>
<br>
I am sure I am missing some critical bit of understanding and hope<br>
someone can explain the chain of accountability in the membership<br>
model. I feel that we are still hand-waving a bit in the explanations.<br>
In a sense it seems as if we are creating a 'council' that is omnipotent<br>
in the powers it is given, except that they can somehow be replaced.<br>
<br>
Thanks and apologies for my persistent confusion.<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 20-May-15 01:14, Jordan Carter wrote:<br>
> Hi all<br>
><br>
> This thread is useful to tease out some of the questions and concerns<br>
> and confusions with the UA model, and as rapporteur for the WP<br>
> responsible for refining this part of the proposal I am reading it avidly.<br>
><br>
> I just want to take the opportunity to remind us all why membership<br>
> (or something analogous) is an important aspect of the reforms we are<br>
> proposing - no matter the precise details.<br>
><br>
> At the moment without members, ICANN is fundamentally controlled by<br>
> the Board. The only external constraint is the IANA functions contract<br>
> with NTIA. The long list of community concerns and examples detailed<br>
> by our earlier work in this CCWG shows that even with that constraint,<br>
> accountability isn't up to scratch.<br>
><br>
> We are working on a settlement without that NTIA contract.<br>
> Accountability has to get better even *with* the contract.<br>
> Fundamentally better, without it.<br>
><br>
> Either we have a membership structure or some other durable approach<br>
> that firmly embeds the stewardship of ICANN and the DNS in the ICANN<br>
> community, or... we remain with Board control.<br>
><br>
> Given ICANN's history, anyone who is advocating a continuation of<br>
> Board control is arguing for a model that can't be suitably<br>
> accountable, and that seems highly likely to fail over time, with real<br>
> risks to the security and stability of the DNS.<br>
><br>
> A real, fundamental source of power over the company absent the<br>
> contract *has* to be established. The membership model is the most<br>
> suitable one to achieve that that we have considered so far.<br>
><br>
> So: we need to be creative and thoughtful in how we make that model<br>
> work in a fashion that disrupts ICANN's general operation as little as<br>
> possible. But the key there is "as possible." Real change is needed<br>
> and much refinement and comment is needed.<br>
><br>
> If there are proposals to achieve the same shift in control from ICANN<br>
> the corporation to ICANN the community, I hope they come through in<br>
> the comment period. So far, none have - but there are still two weeks<br>
> of comments to go.<br>
><br>
> cheers<br>
> Jordan<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 20 May 2015 at 10:45, Malcolm Hutty <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','malcolm@linx.net');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">malcolm@linx.net</span></a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','malcolm@linx.net');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">malcolm@linx.net</span></a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> This whole thread seems to have massively overcomplicated the<br>
> question.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Unless I have missed something, the only reason we need "members"<br>
> is to<br>
> stand as plaintiff-of-record in a lawsuit against the ICANN Board<br>
> complaining that the Board has failed to adhere to the corporations<br>
> bylaws. Such a lawsuit would in reality be conducted by an SO or<br>
> AC, but<br>
> a person with legal personality needs to act as plaintiff-of-record.<br>
><br>
> Why not simply proceed, as Samantha suggested, with the SOACs'<br>
> Chairs as<br>
> the members of the corporation? Could the Articles (or Bylaws, as<br>
> appropriate) not simply identify the SOACs' Chairs as the members, ex<br>
> officio and pro tempore?<br>
><br>
> An SOAC Chair that refused to act as plaintiff-of-record when required<br>
> to do so by his SOAC could simply be replaced. Likewise a Chair that<br>
> went rogue and initiated a lawsuit without their consent.<br>
><br>
> You can't make the SOAC a member without turning them into UAs,<br>
> with all<br>
> the attendent complexity. But I don't see that there should be any<br>
> such<br>
> problem with designating the chair of a SOAC, who will be a natural<br>
> person, as a member of the corporation; the fact that the SOAC is<br>
> not a<br>
> UA is then irrelevant.<br>
><br>
> In the event that there were any dispute as to whether a particular<br>
> person is in truth an SOAC Chair, this would surely be a simple<br>
> preliminary matter of fact for the court. It is surely beyond dispute<br>
> that if the Articles designated "Alan Greenberg" as the member, it<br>
> would<br>
> be a matter of fact as to whether or not the person before the<br>
> court was<br>
> indeed Alan Greenberg; surely it is the same as to whether the person<br>
> before the court is "the current Chair of ALAC", if that should be<br>
> what<br>
> is specified in the Articles?<br>
><br>
> Malcolm.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Malcolm Hutty | tel:<span> </span><a href="tel:%2B44%2020%207645%203523" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">+44 20 7645 3523</span></a><br>
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><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Jordan Carter<br>
><br>
> Chief Executive<br>
> *InternetNZ*<br>
><br>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Jordan Carter<br>
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<b>InternetNZ</b><br>
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04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)<br>
<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jordan@internetnz.net.nz');" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</span></a><span> </span><br>
Skype: jordancarter<br>
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<i>A better world through a better Internet </i></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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