<p dir="ltr">Hi Greg,</p>
<p dir="ltr">I believe you already got some response with regards to your question. However I'd still suggest you have a look at PC submission of the respective SO/AC for more info.</p>
<p dir="ltr">That said, I thought we have gotten passed membership after BA hence the first item in the list of what I understood to be current status.</p>
<p dir="ltr">One of the summary I got from BA was that the "empowered SO/AC membership model" and the "empowered SO/AC designator model" would be reviewed in detail. Understanding the known challenges with membership route, I wonder why we would be spending more legal hours on it after the ones already spent till date. Nevertheless, some have said it's worth it which is fine but do we need to again expand the list of models at this point? I don't think so.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I guess it's safer for me to conclude that there is NO proposal on the table at the moment. It is my hope that co-chairs would take note of the following going forward:</p>
<p dir="ltr">- Be sensitive to possible journey that would take us through a tunnel that we know what it's end will look like (because we already gone through that tunnel in the past)<br>
- Don't take silence on the list to mean consent<br>
- Focus on goals and clarity on power priorities should be ensured<br>
- Legal opinion is not always the implementable answer but the consensus based non-legal ones can be more realistically implementable within this context</p>
<p dir="ltr">Regards</p>
<p dir="ltr">Sent from Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse brevity and typos.</p>
<div class="gmail_quot<blockquote class=" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Kavouss,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We need to understand the objections that any SO/AC has to a proposal on the table to see if those objections can be dealt with. If we don't understand why there are concerns, we'll never resolve them. There are concerns around every model.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If a concern can be resolved by the lawyers, where there is a legal issue, that is money well spent.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If any SO/AC has decided anything "for certain," we are in trouble.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">As Jordan has said, everybody has to get out of their corners so that we can come to resolution.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In any democratic process, there should be open and substantive debate, and open-minded work toward resolving concerns.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I don't consider asking any SO/AC why they have taken a particular position to be "pressure." I consider it a necessity. Hidden reasons or no reason at all leave very little to work with when trying to solve problems.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:01 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Dear Grec</div><div>If a SO and/ AC has decided for certain </div><div>Model it is neither CCWG nor the Lawyers to provide convincing reasons</div><div>No penny is to be authorised to the lawyers.</div><div>This is a democratic process and no pressure from anybody </div><div>Regards</div><div>Kavouss <br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On 7 Jul 2015, at 06:34, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Alan,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">What are the specific reasons that the ALAC would opt not to be a member, if a membership model were adopted? Have our lawyers been asked to respond to these reasons?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 12:00 AM, Alan Greenberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Among the problems with Membership is that there are strong indications
that several AC/SOs will not sign on as members (the ALAC is among them)
leaving the possibility of very few members, and those members (or quite
possibly member) would have the statutory power to unilaterally and
irreversibly dissolve the corporation, and the IANA Names stewardship
along with it.<br><br>
You might ask, "Why would they do that?" and I have no clue.
But if we are determined to consider world with a rogue Board with not a
single Board member who is objecting, then a rogue SO cannot be off the
radar either.<br><br>
Alan<br><br>
<br><br>
At 06/07/2015 09:01 PM, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Hello Avri,<br><br>
<dl>
<dd>I believe membership raises the issues of accountability to the full
</dd><dd>diversity of stakeholders to a much higher threshold, including the
</dd><dd>issue of the degree to which ICANN is accountable to stakeholders
not
</dd><dd>included among our SG/C/RALO/ALS / as well as among parrticpating
CCs
</dd><dd>and govts.<br><br>
</dd></dl><br><br>
Please, if possible, raise your concerns stating fact rather than belief.
Maybe there is something I have missed. There is absolutely no difference
in the openness to non ICANN stakeholders between the empowered
membership and empowered designator models. At least I don't see any.
Both are based upon the current SOAC's. If there is a difference in this
area I need to and want to be educated. Please respond with
specific and detailed instances or examples of why what you claim is true
is. Vague generalities are not particularly helpful. Again, I am open to
be educated and persuaded but with substantive fact rather than vague as
yet unsubstantiated beliefs.<br><br>
No model is as open to non SOAC's as is Malcolm's proposal for individual
membership. That, again, is a membership model. Do you support this open
membership model and if not why not? Would you prefer other models to be
looked at that are not based upon the SOAC's? I think that would be a
very reasonable position and one I certainly am open to supporting if a
workable model would be proposed. As yet I have not seen one. Have you?
Should we try to find one?<br>
<dl>
<dd>I think enough of the comments bring out questions of accountability
in
</dd><dd>a mebership organization to make the membership option less than
optimal.<br><br>
</dd></dl><br><br>
What comments are you referring to? Certainly not the public comments
which were basically supportive of membership. Are these comments you
refer to based upon vague generalities or specific problems? If
there are specific problems what specifically are they? Should we not
determine whether there are solutions to those problems rather than just
dismissing the model outright? If not, what are your views as to the
ultimate apparent unenforceability of the designator model in certain
areas? Do you disagree with Paul Rosenzweig when he states that "a
direct community veto of budget and strategic plan remains essential to
accountability"? If not, what do you propose to do in these areas
without membership. Should we simply forget them?<br><br>
I do think there may be another option or two out there and hopefully
working with our counsel we'll find them. <br><br>
In the interim, I really am looking to be educated. No one has
taught me more about ICANN since I became involved in it than you Avri.
I'm just not easily persuadable by vague opinions, I'm a fact based sort
of guy. As this process has moved forward I've seen your views and
positions change. To me, that is an admirable sign of someone truly
looking for an optimal answer rather than one who is clinging to a
defined position. I'm just having some trouble understanding,
factually, the specific objections you are now raising about
membership. I hope you can help me understand so I can better test and
evaluate my own views..<br><br>
Thanks,<br><br>
Ed <br><br>
<dl>
<dd>On 06-Jul-15 19:05, Edward Morris wrote:
</dd><dd>> +1. Well said.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Jonathan Zuck
<<a href="mailto:JZuck@actonline.org" target="_blank">JZuck@actonline.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:JZuck@actonline.org" target="_blank">
mailto:JZuck@actonline.org</a>>> wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Hmm. I think it’s important to bear in mind that there
was
</dd><dd>> overwhelming consensus among the public comments to
support the
</dd><dd>> membership model. The detractors from the model, while
important
</dd><dd>> and perhaps critical, are not in the majority. I’m not
sure this
</dd><dd>> process speaks to how we better use counsel as much as
how we
</dd><dd>> achieve consensus on principles.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
*From:*<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>>
</dd><dd>>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>>] *On
</dd><dd>> Behalf Of *Seun Ojedeji
</dd><dd>> *Sent:* Monday, July 6, 2015 3:50 PM
</dd><dd>> *To:* Becky Burr
</dd><dd>> *Cc:*
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>>
</dd><dd>> *Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Who is managing the lawyers
and what
</dd><dd>> have they beenasked to do?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Hi Becky,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Thanks for asking, item 3 is actually in connection to
the fact
</dd><dd>> that such veto may not be possible without item 1(as I
understood
</dd><dd>> it) and that is why I said an indirect veto can happen
not that I
</dd><dd>> was entirely suggesting that those powers be off the
table.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> It seem however that folks are only looking at the
powers and not
</dd><dd>> at what it will take to have them.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> By the way, I also did put in a reservation that we may
not
</dd><dd>> necessarily agree with those views but my concern is
mainly that
</dd><dd>> the ccwg does not spend so much time developing
proposals that we
</dd><dd>> know has certain implementation requirements that are
not
</dd><dd>> compatible with the ICANN community structure. I think
we should
</dd><dd>> learn from the the past (based on comments from the last
PC) and
</dd><dd>> utilize legal council and volunteer hours more
effectively.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> FWIW speaking as participant.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Regards
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> On 6 Jul 2015 8:08 pm, "Burr, Becky"
<<a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">
mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a>>> wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Seun,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> I am not sure why we would
take direct budget/strat plan veto
</dd><dd>> off the table. Could
you explain? Thanks.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Becky
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> J. Beckwith Burr
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy
General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW,
Washington, DC 20006
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Office:
<a href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932" target="_blank">+ 1.202.533.2932</a>
<tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932> Mobile:
</dd><dd>>
<a href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367" target="_blank">+1.202.352.6367</a>
</dd><dd>>
<tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> /
<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">
mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>> /
<a href="http://www.neustar.biz" target="_blank">www.neustar.biz</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/" target="_blank">
http://www.neustar.biz</a>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> *From: *Seun Ojedeji
<<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">
mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>>
</dd><dd>> *Date: *Monday, July 6, 2015
at 11:09 AM
</dd><dd>> *To: *Robin Gross
<<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">
mailto:robin@ipjustice.org</a>>>
</dd><dd>> *Cc: *Accountability
Community
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>>>
</dd><dd>> *Subject: *Re: [CCWG-ACCT]
Who is managing the lawyers and
</dd><dd>> what have they beenasked to
do?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Hi,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> I have no problem with
having a new proposal presented.
</dd><dd>> However it is important that
there some adherence to basic
</dd><dd>> principles on proposals that
the ccwg would not want to
</dd><dd>> explore. Three areas comes
to mind:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> - Its my understanding that
anything that will turn some/all
</dd><dd>> of the SO/AC to members and
thereby exposing them to legal
</dd><dd>> challenge is not acceptable
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> - Its my understanding that
anything that allows removal of
</dd><dd>> individual board member
without the approval of the entire(or
</dd><dd>> larger part) of the
community is not acceptable
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> - Its my understanding that
a solution that allows direct
</dd><dd>> community veto on certain
elements like budget, strategic plan
</dd><dd>> et all is not acceptable but
an indirect enforcement could be
</dd><dd>> considered (i.e using a
power to get another power executed
</dd><dd>> indirectly)
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Some/none of the above may
be acceptable by us, but my point
</dd><dd>> is that there should be some
focus going forward, especially
</dd><dd>> if the target of ICANN54 is
to be meet
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Regards
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 3:37
PM, Robin Gross
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a>
<<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">
mailto:robin@ipjustice.org</a>>> wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> I would also like to
hear what they propose at this
</dd><dd>> stage. I
really don't see how it could hurt to have
</dd><dd>> another proposal to
consider. Larry Strickling did say he
</dd><dd>> wanted us to be sure
we examined all the options carefully.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Thanks,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Robin
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> On Jul 6, 2015, at
7:32 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> I
agree. We should have the benefit of their thoughts.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Greg
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> On
Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Jordan Carter
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">
mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>>> wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Well, I would really really like to see what the
</dd><dd>>
creative thinking they have done has suggested. I
</dd><dd>>
trust our ability as a group to make decisions,
</dd><dd>>
and do not believe we should cut off input from
</dd><dd>>
any direction...
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Jordan
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
On 7 July 2015 at 01:13, James Gannon
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">
mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net</a>>> wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Hey Avri,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Yes the 3rd model was brought up, and the
</dd><dd>>
lawyers feel that it might be a cleaner
way
</dd><dd>>
for us to get the powers that we need.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
But without a call from the CCWG to
present it
</dd><dd>>
they feel that its not their position to
</dd><dd>>
propose a model on their own initiative.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Personally i would like to see what they
have
</dd><dd>>
come up with but the CCWG would need to
ask as
</dd><dd>>
an overall group for the chairs to direct
them
</dd><dd>>
to give some more information on the model
if
</dd><dd>>
we wanted it.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
I think if after we hear from them on
Tuesdays
</dd><dd>>
call we still feel we might have some
</dd><dd>>
shortcomings that it might be the time to
ask
</dd><dd>>
them about the 3rd option.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Also +1 I think they are really enjoying
the
</dd><dd>>
work and are finding themselves getting
more
</dd><dd>>
and more involved as we go on, which is
great
</dd><dd>>
for the CCWG as the more background and
</dd><dd>>
details they know the better that are able
to
</dd><dd>>
give us solid well reasoned advice in my
opinion.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
-James
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
On 6 Jul 2015, at 13:19, Avri
Doria
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>
<<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">mailto:avri@acm.org</a>
>> wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Hi,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
I have not had a chance to get
back to the
</dd><dd>>
recording of the call.
Not
</dd><dd>>
sure I will, that time was the
time I had
</dd><dd>>
for that call and that is why
</dd><dd>>
i was listening then.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
In any case, the lawyers were
talking
</dd><dd>>
about a new model they had come
up
</dd><dd>>
with, but not knowing what to do
about it
</dd><dd>>
since they had not been asked
</dd><dd>>
for a new model.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
I was told to leave before I got
to hear
</dd><dd>>
the end of that story. Or about
</dd><dd>>
the model itself. Anyone who
has had a
</dd><dd>>
chance to listen, whatever
happened?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
avri
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
ps. sometimes i think the lawyers
are
</dd><dd>>
getting interested in what we are
</dd><dd>>
doing, almost like stakeholders.
not that
</dd><dd>>
i expect them to give up their
</dd><dd>>
hourly rates because they are
stakeholders.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
On 06-Jul-15 05:07, James Gannon
wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
I listened to
the last co-chairs
</dd><dd>>
lawyers’ call
at;
</dd><dd>>
<a href="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=53782602" target="_blank">
https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=53782602</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D53782602&d=AwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=rX8zWSdUbF0XJ6RQyX5HABE7NaQIgAXHj6WfvEXkLh8&s=5REzt6Gk0Mt5evnhe_F8O87Kpc4hX8wql7vP--WYsnQ&e=" target="_blank">
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D53782602&d=AwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=rX8zWSdUbF0XJ6RQyX5HABE7NaQIgAXHj6WfvEXkLh8&s=5REzt6Gk0Mt5evnhe_F8O87Kpc4hX8wql7vP--WYsnQ&e=</a>
>
</dd><dd>>
(I’m a glutton
for punishment)
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
It was a short
call and I’ll make a
</dd><dd>>
particular note
that Leon and
</dd><dd>>
Mathieu made a
point of not making any
</dd><dd>>
decisions on
behalf of the
</dd><dd>>
whole group and
made it clear anything
</dd><dd>>
requiring a
decision must be
</dd><dd>>
made by the
overall CCWG, so I was
</dd><dd>>
happy with that
side of things
</dd><dd>>
myself, most of
my own fears about not
</dd><dd>>
having a
sub-group are somewhat
</dd><dd>>
assuaged.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
So my
paraphrasing and overview is:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
· Lawyers working hard on the
</dd><dd>>
models for us
collaboratively
</dd><dd>>
between the two
firms since BA
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
· Lawyers are prepping a
</dd><dd>>
presentation to
give to us ASAP
</dd><dd>>
before Paris if
possible, that
</dd><dd>>
presentation
will take the majority of
</dd><dd>>
a call, it
can’t be done quickly, they
</dd><dd>>
need about
45mins uninterrupted
</dd><dd>>
to go through
the presentation and
</dd><dd>>
then would
likely need Q&A time
</dd><dd>>
after they
present.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
· Some small
</dd><dd>>
wording/clarifications to come back to
</dd><dd>>
the CCWG
</dd><dd>>
to make sure
everyone’s on the same page
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
· Everyone feels Paris will
be
</dd><dd>>
an important
time for the
</dd><dd>>
models, lawyers
will be ready for a
</dd><dd>>
grilling on the
details of the
</dd><dd>>
models from us
to flesh out any of our
</dd><dd>>
concerns/questions
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Note that the
above is all my very
</dd><dd>>
condensed
overview of the
</dd><dd>>
conversations.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
It seemed like a
productive call to me.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
-James
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
*From:*<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>>
</dd><dd>>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>>]
</dd><dd>>
*On Behalf
</dd><dd>>
Of *Greg Shatan
</dd><dd>>
*Sent:* Monday,
July 06, 2015 5:33 AM
</dd><dd>>
*To:* Carlos
Raul
</dd><dd>>
*Cc:*
</dd><dd>>
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>>
</dd><dd>>
*Subject:* Re:
[CCWG-ACCT] Who is
</dd><dd>>
managing the
lawyers and what have
</dd><dd>>
they beenasked
to do?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Carlos,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
As the legal
sub-team was disbanded,
</dd><dd>>
your guess is as
good as mine.....
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Greg
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
On Mon, Jul 6,
2015 at 12:27 AM,
</dd><dd>>
Carlos Raul
<<a href="mailto:carlosraulg@gmail.com" target="_blank">carlosraulg@gmail.com</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:carlosraulg@gmail.com" target="_blank">
mailto:carlosraulg@gmail.com</a>>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:carlosraulg@gmail.com" target="_blank">
mailto:carlosraulg@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Thank you Greg!
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
It makes a lot of
sense and I guess
</dd><dd>>
those are all
good reasons as
</dd><dd>>
we hired them in the
first place.
</dd><dd>>
What are the
next steps now?
</dd><dd>>
What happened in the
recent call?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Best regards
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Carlos Raúl
Gutiérrez
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
<a href="tel:%2B506%208837%207176" target="_blank">+506 8837 7176</a>
</dd><dd>>
<tel:%2B506%208837%207176>
</dd><dd>>
<tel:%2B506%208837%207176>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Skype carlos.raulg
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
_________
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Apartado 1571-1000
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
*COSTA RICA*
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015
at 12:02 AM,
</dd><dd>>
Greg Shatan
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">
mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">
mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>>
</dd><dd>>
wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Chris,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
That was tried to some extent,
</dd><dd>>
at least in the
CWG.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
There are several substantial
</dd><dd>>
problems with
that approach.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
First, lawyers are not
</dd><dd>>
fungible.
The particular legal skills,
</dd><dd>>
background and experience
</dd><dd>>
required for the
issues before both
</dd><dd>>
WGs are fairly specific, and in
</dd><dd>>
some cases, very
specific.
</dd><dd>>
The primary core competency
</dd><dd>>
needed here is
corporate
</dd><dd>>
governance. While a number of
</dd><dd>>
lawyers in the
community have a
</dd><dd>>
reasonable working knowledge of
</dd><dd>>
the area, at
least in their
</dd><dd>>
home jurisdictions, I don't
</dd><dd>>
believe there
are any who would
</dd><dd>>
say that this is their primary
</dd><dd>>
focus and
expertise -- at least
</dd><dd>>
none who identified themselves
</dd><dd>>
to either
WG. The second core
</dd><dd>>
competency required, especially
</dd><dd>>
in the CCWG, is
non-profit
</dd><dd>>
law. Again there are a number
</dd><dd>>
of lawyers with
a decent working
</dd><dd>>
knowledge of this fairly broad
</dd><dd>>
field, but not
as a primary
</dd><dd>>
focus. There may be a couple
</dd><dd>>
of lawyers in
the community who
</dd><dd>>
would claim this fairly broad
</dd><dd>>
field as a
primary focus and
</dd><dd>>
expertise -- but none who
</dd><dd>>
became involved
with either WG.
</dd><dd>>
This then becomes further
</dd><dd>>
narrowed by
jurisdiction. Since
</dd><dd>>
ICANN is a California
</dd><dd>>
non-profit
corporation, US corporate
</dd><dd>>
governance and non-profit
</dd><dd>>
experience is
more relevant than
</dd><dd>>
experience from other
</dd><dd>>
jurisdictions,
and California law
</dd><dd>>
corporate governance and
</dd><dd>>
non-profit
experience is more
</dd><dd>>
relevant than that from other
</dd><dd>>
US
jurisdictions. In my
</dd><dd>>
experience, the more a US
</dd><dd>>
lawyer focuses
on a particular
</dd><dd>>
substantive area, the greater
</dd><dd>>
their knowledge
of and comfort
</dd><dd>>
with state law issues in US
</dd><dd>>
state
jurisdictions other than
</dd><dd>>
their own (e.g., someone who
</dd><dd>>
spend a majority
of their time
</dd><dd>>
working in corporate governance
</dd><dd>>
will have a
greater knowledge
</dd><dd>>
of
the law, issues, approaches
</dd><dd>>
and trends
outside their
</dd><dd>>
primary state of practice,
</dd><dd>>
while someone
who spends a
</dd><dd>>
relatively small amount of time
</dd><dd>>
in the area will
tend to feel
</dd><dd>>
less comfortable outside their
</dd><dd>>
home
jurisdiction). (An
</dd><dd>>
exception is that many US
</dd><dd>>
lawyers have
specific knowledge of
</dd><dd>>
certain Delaware corporate law
</dd><dd>>
issues, because
Delaware often
</dd><dd>>
serves as the state of
</dd><dd>>
incorporation
for entities operating
</dd><dd>>
elsewhere.)
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Second, lawyers in the
</dd><dd>>
community will
seldom be seen as
</dd><dd>>
neutral advisors, no matter how
</dd><dd>>
hard they
try. They will tend
</dd><dd>>
to
be seen as working from
</dd><dd>>
their point of
view or stakeholder
</dd><dd>>
group or "special interest" or
</dd><dd>>
desired outcome,
even if they
</dd><dd>>
are trying to be even-handed.
</dd><dd>>
Over the course
of time, this
</dd><dd>>
balancing act would tend to
</dd><dd>>
become more
untenable.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Third, the amount of time it
</dd><dd>>
would take to
provide truly
</dd><dd>>
definitive legal advice
</dd><dd>>
(research,
careful drafting,
</dd><dd>>
discussions with relevant
</dd><dd>>
"clients", etc.) would be
</dd><dd>>
prohibitive, even compared to
</dd><dd>>
the substantial
amount of time
</dd><dd>>
it
takes to provide reasonably
</dd><dd>>
well-informed
and competent
</dd><dd>>
legal-based viewpoints in the
</dd><dd>>
course of either
WG's work.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Fourth, in order to formally
</dd><dd>>
counsel the
community, the lawyer
</dd><dd>>
or
lawyers in question would
</dd><dd>>
have to enter
into a formal
</dd><dd>>
attorney-client relationship.
</dd><dd>>
Under US law,
an
</dd><dd>>
attorney-client relationship
</dd><dd>>
may
inadvertently be created by
</dd><dd>>
the attorney's actions, so
</dd><dd>>
attorneys try to
be careful about
</dd><dd>>
not providing formal legal
</dd><dd>>
advice without a
formal engagement
</dd><dd>>
(sometimes providing an
</dd><dd>>
explicit
"caveat" if they feel they
</dd><dd>>
might be getting too close to
</dd><dd>>
providing legal
advice). If the
</dd><dd>>
attorney is employed by a
</dd><dd>>
corporation,
they would likely be
</dd><dd>>
unable to take on such a
</dd><dd>>
representation
due to the terms of
</dd><dd>>
their employment, and that is
</dd><dd>>
before getting
to an exploration
</dd><dd>>
of
conflict of interest
</dd><dd>>
issues. If
the attorney is employed
</dd><dd>>
by
a firm, the firm would have
</dd><dd>>
to sign off on
the
</dd><dd>>
representation, again dealing
</dd><dd>>
with potential
conflict issues.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Fifth, even if the above issues
</dd><dd>>
were all somehow
resolved, it
</dd><dd>>
would be highly unlikely that
</dd><dd>>
any such
attorney would provide
</dd><dd>>
substantial amounts of advice,
</dd><dd>>
written memos,
counseling, etc.
</dd><dd>>
on
a pro bono (unpaid) basis,
</dd><dd>>
especially given
the
</dd><dd>>
time-consuming nature of the
</dd><dd>>
work. Pro
bono advice and
</dd><dd>>
representation is generally
</dd><dd>>
accorded to
individuals and
</dd><dd>>
entities that could not
</dd><dd>>
otherwise be
able to pay for it. That
</dd><dd>>
is
clearly not the case here,
</dd><dd>>
at least with
ICANN taking
</dd><dd>>
financial responsibility. It
</dd><dd>>
would likely be
very difficult
</dd><dd>>
to
justify this to, e.g., a
</dd><dd>>
firm's pro bono
committee, as a
</dd><dd>>
valid pro bono representation.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Sixth, if ICANN were not taking
</dd><dd>>
the role they
are taking, it
</dd><dd>>
would be extremely difficult to
</dd><dd>>
identify the
"client" in this
</dd><dd>>
situation. The "community" is
</dd><dd>>
a collection of
sectors,
</dd><dd>>
mostly represented by various
</dd><dd>>
ICANN-created
structures, which
</dd><dd>>
in
turn have members of widely
</dd><dd>>
varying types
(individuals,
</dd><dd>>
corporations, sovereigns,
</dd><dd>>
non-profits,
IGOs, partnerships,
</dd><dd>>
etc.). This would also make it
</dd><dd>>
extremely
difficult to enter
</dd><dd>>
into a formal counseling
</dd><dd>>
relationship
with the "community."
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Seventh, this is a sensitive,
</dd><dd>>
high-profile,
transformative set
</dd><dd>>
of
actions we are involved in,
</dd><dd>>
which is subject
to an
</dd><dd>>
extraordinary amount of
</dd><dd>>
scrutiny, not
least that of the NTIA
</dd><dd>>
and the US Congress. That
</dd><dd>>
eliminates any
possibility of
</dd><dd>>
providing informal,
</dd><dd>>
off-the-cuff,
reasonably well-informed but
</dd><dd>>
not quite expert, "non-advice"
</dd><dd>>
advice -- which
might happen in
</dd><dd>>
a
more obscure exercise.
</dd><dd>>
There's simply
too much at stake.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Finally, I would say that a
</dd><dd>>
number of
attorneys involved in
</dd><dd>>
one or both of the WGs are in
</dd><dd>>
fact providing a
significant
</dd><dd>>
amount of legal knowledge and
</dd><dd>>
experience to
the WGs, helping
</dd><dd>>
to
frame issues, whether in
</dd><dd>>
terms of general
leadership (e.g.,
</dd><dd>>
Thomas, Leon, Becky) or more
</dd><dd>>
specifically in
a
</dd><dd>>
"lawyer-as-client" capacity --
</dd><dd>>
working with
outside counsel,
</dd><dd>>
tackling the more legalistic
</dd><dd>>
issues,
providing as much legal
</dd><dd>>
background and knowledge as
</dd><dd>>
possible without
providing the
</dd><dd>>
type of formal legal advice
</dd><dd>>
that would tend
to create an
</dd><dd>>
attorney-client relationship,
</dd><dd>>
etc. So I
do think that many
</dd><dd>>
lawyers in the community are
</dd><dd>>
giving greatly
of themselves in
</dd><dd>>
this process, even though they
</dd><dd>>
cannot and would
not be able to
</dd><dd>>
formally be engaged by the
</dd><dd>>
community as its
"counsel of record."
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
In
sum, it might be a nice
</dd><dd>>
thought in
theory, but it is no way
</dd><dd>>
a
practical possibility.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Greg
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
On
Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 3:08 AM,
</dd><dd>>
CW Lists
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu" target="_blank">
lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu" target="_blank">
mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a>>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu" target="_blank">
mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a>>>
</dd><dd>>
wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Good morning:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
I had decided not to enter
</dd><dd>>
this debate. But
I am bound to
</dd><dd>>
say that the thought had
</dd><dd>>
occurred to me
at the time, that
</dd><dd>>
there were more than enough
</dd><dd>>
qualified
lawyers in this
</dd><dd>>
community that they could
</dd><dd>>
perfectly well
have counselled …
</dd><dd>>
themselves.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
CW
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
On 04 Jul 2015, at 08:41,
</dd><dd>>
Greg Shatan
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">
mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">
mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>>
</dd><dd>>
wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Wolfgang,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
To your first point,
</dd><dd>>
the billing
rates were clearly
</dd><dd>>
stated in the law
</dd><dd>>
firms'
engagement letters.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
To your second point,
</dd><dd>>
I'm sure we
could all think of
</dd><dd>>
other projects and
</dd><dd>>
goals where the
money could have
</dd><dd>>
been "better spent."
</dd><dd>>
You've stated
yours. But that
</dd><dd>>
is not the proper
</dd><dd>>
test. This
was and continues to be
</dd><dd>>
money we need to spend
</dd><dd>>
to achieve the
goals we have
</dd><dd>>
set. Under different
</dd><dd>>
circumstances,
perhaps it would
</dd><dd>>
be a different amount
</dd><dd>>
(or maybe none
at all). But it
</dd><dd>>
was strongly felt at
</dd><dd>>
the outset that
the group needed
</dd><dd>>
to have independent
</dd><dd>>
counsel.
Clearly that counsel
</dd><dd>>
needed to have
</dd><dd>>
recognized
expertise in the appropriate
</dd><dd>>
legal areas. As such,
</dd><dd>>
I believe we
made excellent
</dd><dd>>
choices and have been
</dd><dd>>
very well
represented.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
As to your "better
</dd><dd>>
spent"
test, I just had to have
</dd><dd>>
$4000.00 worth of
</dd><dd>>
emergency dental
work done. This
</dd><dd>>
money definitely could
</dd><dd>>
have been
"better spent" on a
</dd><dd>>
nice vacation,
</dd><dd>>
redecorating our
living room or on
</dd><dd>>
donations to my favored
</dd><dd>>
charitable
causes. But I had
</dd><dd>>
no choice, other than
</dd><dd>>
to choose which
dentist and
</dd><dd>>
endodontist I went to,
</dd><dd>>
and I wasn't
going to cut
</dd><dd>>
corners -- the dental
</dd><dd>>
work was a
necessity.
</dd><dd>>
Similarly, the legal
</dd><dd>>
work we are
getting is a
</dd><dd>>
necessity and whether
</dd><dd>>
we would have
preferred to spend
</dd><dd>>
the money elsewhere is
</dd><dd>>
not merely
irrelevant, it is an
</dd><dd>>
incorrect and
</dd><dd>>
inappropriate
proposition. Many of us
</dd><dd>>
are investing vast
</dd><dd>>
quantities of
time that could be
</dd><dd>>
"better spent"
</dd><dd>>
elsewhere as
well, but we are willing
</dd><dd>>
(grudgingly sometimes)
</dd><dd>>
to spend the
time it takes to
</dd><dd>>
get it right, because
</dd><dd>>
we believe it
needs to be done.
</dd><dd>>
This is the appropriate
</dd><dd>>
measure, whether
it comes to
</dd><dd>>
our time or counsels'
</dd><dd>>
time. If
we believe in this
</dd><dd>>
project, we have to
</dd><dd>>
invest in it,
and do what it takes
</dd><dd>>
to succeed.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Of course, this
</dd><dd>>
investment has
to be managed wisely
</dd><dd>>
and cost-effectively,
</dd><dd>>
and by and
large, I believe the
</dd><dd>>
CCWG has done that
</dd><dd>>
reasonably well
-- not perfectly,
</dd><dd>>
but reasonably well and
</dd><dd>>
with
"course corrections"
</dd><dd>>
along the way intended
</dd><dd>>
to improve that
management.
</dd><dd>>
It's certainly fair to
</dd><dd>>
ask, as Robin
has done, for a
</dd><dd>>
better understanding of
</dd><dd>>
that management
as we go
</dd><dd>>
along. But asserting
</dd><dd>>
that the money
could have been
</dd><dd>>
"better spent"
</dd><dd>>
elsewhere sets
up a false test that we
</dd><dd>>
should not use to
</dd><dd>>
evaluate this
important aspect of
</dd><dd>>
our work. Instead, we
</dd><dd>>
need to focus on
whether the
</dd><dd>>
money was "well spent"
</dd><dd>>
on these
critical legal
</dd><dd>>
services. If you have
</dd><dd>>
reason to
believe it was not,
</dd><dd>>
that could be useful to
</dd><dd>>
know. That
would at least be
</dd><dd>>
the right discussion to
</dd><dd>>
have.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Greg
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at
</dd><dd>>
1:13 AM,
"Kleinwächter,
</dd><dd>>
Wolfgang"
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de" target="_blank">
wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de" target="_blank">
mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a>>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de" target="_blank">
mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a>>>
</dd><dd>>
wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
HI,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
and please if you
</dd><dd>>
ask outside
lawyers, ask for the
</dd><dd>>
price tag in
</dd><dd>>
advance. Some of
the money spend fo
</dd><dd>>
lawyers could have
</dd><dd>>
been spend
better to suppport
</dd><dd>>
and enable Internet
</dd><dd>>
user and
non-commercial groups
</dd><dd>>
in developing
</dd><dd>>
countries.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Wolfgang
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
-----Ursprüngliche
</dd><dd>>
Nachricht-----
</dd><dd>>
Von:
</dd><dd>>
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>>
</dd><dd>>
im Auftrag von
</dd><dd>>
Robin Gross
</dd><dd>>
Gesendet: Fr
</dd><dd>>
03.07.2015
14:57
</dd><dd>>
An:
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>>
</dd><dd>>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>>
</dd><dd>>
Community
</dd><dd>>
Betreff:
</dd><dd>>
[CCWG-ACCT] Who
is managing the lawyers
</dd><dd>>
and what have they
</dd><dd>>
beenasked to
do?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
After the legal
</dd><dd>>
sub-team was
disbanded, I haven't
</dd><dd>>
been able to follow
</dd><dd>>
what
communications are
</dd><dd>>
happening with CCWG
</dd><dd>>
and the
independent lawyers we
</dd><dd>>
retained.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
I understand the
</dd><dd>>
lawyers are
currently "working on
</dd><dd>>
the various models"
</dd><dd>>
and will present
something to
</dd><dd>>
us regarding that
</dd><dd>>
work soon.
However, *what
</dd><dd>>
exactly* have the
</dd><dd>>
lawyers been
asked to do and
</dd><dd>>
*who* asked them?
</dd><dd>>
If
there are written
</dd><dd>>
instructions, may
</dd><dd>>
the group please
see them? Who
</dd><dd>>
is now taking on
</dd><dd>>
the role of
managing the outside
</dd><dd>>
attorneys for this
</dd><dd>>
group, including
providing
</dd><dd>>
instructions and
</dd><dd>>
certifying legal
work?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Sorry, but I'm
</dd><dd>>
really trying to
understand what is
</dd><dd>>
happening, and
</dd><dd>>
there doesn't
seem to be much
</dd><dd>>
information in the
</dd><dd>>
public on this
(or if there is,
</dd><dd>>
I can't find it).
</dd><dd>>
Thanks for any
information
</dd><dd>>
anyone can provide.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
Best,
</dd><dd>>
Robin
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
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--
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</dd><dd>> --
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> /Seun Ojedeji,
</dd><dd>> Federal University
Oye-Ekiti
</dd><dd>>
web:
//<a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a>
</dd><dd>>
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</dd><dd>> //Mobile:
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The key to understanding is humility - my view !
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