<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Nigel,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">A California unincorporated association is a limited liability vehicle, as it is in certain other jurisdictions. If we were to go down the route of have SO/ACs be/create/empower (three different options) a legal entity, one would expect a choice to be made that would shield SO/ACs and their members from unlimited legal liability (and there are a variety of options to do so). While this should be implicit by now in this discussion, since it has been explicitly discussed in the past, I'm glad for the opportunity to make it explicit once again. Suggesting someone cross the street is not equivalent to telling them to walk into traffic.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 9:40 AM, Nigel Roberts <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nigel@channelisles.net" target="_blank">nigel@channelisles.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Greg, all<br>
<br>
I have a deadly serious question.<br>
<br>
Why would any Member of an SO voluntarily submit to the danger of unlimited monetary liability?<br>
<br>
So why is anyone even considering UA status for more than 10 seconds?<br>
<br>
<br>
Nigel<br>
<br>
See <a href="http://www.scvo.org.uk/setting-up-a-charity/decide-on-a-structure/voluntary-or-unincorporated-association/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.scvo.org.uk/setting-up-a-charity/decide-on-a-structure/voluntary-or-unincorporated-association/</a><span class=""><br>
<br>
<br>
On 09/07/15 14:35, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">
On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br></span><div><div class="h5">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Seun,<br>
<br>
Can you point where this understanding and learning comes from? I<br>
don't think any of this is correct, unless you are referring to a<br>
"council" where each SO/AC is a statutory member of the corporation.<br>
<br>
<br>
Yes indeed thats what i was referring to<br>
<br>
This is not the case in the "single member model," where there is<br>
only one statutory member.<br>
<br>
<br>
Okay thanks for clarifying that for me. So if i get this correctly; does<br>
it mean one of the SO/AC will be a member and then every other SO and AC<br>
exercise their powers through that single member?. Specifically which of<br>
the SO/AC will be member in the single member model?<br>
<br>
However if one of the SO/AC won't have to become a member but the entire<br>
council becoming a UA to fulfill membership requirement, how will that<br>
address some SO/AC not wanting to enter into such legal formality? also<br>
how will accountability of the council be ensured as it could then mean<br>
creating a mini-ICANN board as the council members would have the voting<br>
rights, independence et all. Perhaps the council can be limited by its<br>
governing document, but how will removing council members for instance<br>
be in effect if the populating source(SO/AC) is not a UA.<br>
<br>
Perhaps its not as complicated as i am imagining it so it will be good<br>
to hear some clarifications.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
On Thursday, July 9, 2015, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a><br></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
I understand the powers would be bestowed on the council<br>
individuals and not their source position;<br>
<br>
For instance one of the option is to populate the community<br>
council with leaders of SO/AC, which IMO would be the cheapest<br>
route in this model so they would be occupying a virtual seat<br>
and exercise those powers when required. It would also allow the<br>
various SO/AC internet accountability mechanisms apply to<br>
council including removal of members.<br>
<br>
However, I then learnt that the council cannot be formed by<br>
SO/AC leader positions but rather to the occupants of that<br>
position. This would mean having to rewrite the bylaw/document<br>
forming the council often since leaders of those positions are<br>
dynamic and could change at anytime. Will be good to know if<br>
that is no longer the case<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Sent from Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse brevity and typos.<br>
<br>
On 7 Jul 2015 2:56 pm, "Roelof Meijer" <<a href="mailto:Roelof.Meijer@sidn.nl" target="_blank">Roelof.Meijer@sidn.nl</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Interesting, we’re back on the subject of a single member<br>
structure. It was written off before<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Roelof<br>
<br>
From: <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>> on<br>
behalf of Roelof Meijer <<a href="mailto:roelof.meijer@sidn.nl" target="_blank">roelof.meijer@sidn.nl</a>><br>
Date: woensdag 22 april 2015 15:56<br>
To: "<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] member organization and single<br>
membership structure<br>
<br>
Hi Avri,<br>
<br>
The sole membership construction, is a possibility described<br>
in the legal document in several places: the comments by the<br>
legal experts on the PCCWG mechanism template (page 64) and<br>
the Community Council mechanism template (page 69). I<br>
sent several emails about it to the WP1 list, suggesting to<br>
look in the possibility as indeed it would not necessitate<br>
every SO and AC to become a legal entity. And, as you do,<br>
suggesting: "make the „Community Council” the sole member of<br>
ICANN (and thus a formal legal entity), consisting of either<br>
the SO and AC chairs or SO/AC elected representatives” (from<br>
an email of 14 April).<br>
<br>
And I would think it would enable the SO’s and AC’s<br>
themselves to continue appointing directors, as they do now.<br>
But that’s just guessing, based on the fact that the SO’s<br>
and AC’s themselves would not change status<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Roelof<br>
<br>
From: Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>><br>
Organization: Technicalities<br>
Reply-To: "<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>><br>
Date: woensdag 22 april 2015 15:09<br>
To: "<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] member organization and single<br>
membership structure<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
On 22-Apr-15 08:26, Roelof Meijer wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
2)<br>
What I find quite frustrating is that I have raised the<br>
point of the possibility (or not) of a single membership<br>
structure – an option mentioned by Sidley and Adler &<br>
Colving in their legal advice – several times by now<br>
without getting any substantial reaction. I am not aware<br>
that any serious effort to investigate this has led to a<br>
formal write-off.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
In some way that might lessen the complexity of making most<br>
SOAC an individual legal entity.<br>
<br>
How would it work? Would we continue to appoint Directors<br>
just as we do now?<br>
<br>
Or would there need to be some sort of Members Council that<br>
took actions, working simliarly to the the executive board<br>
or community council idea?<br>
<br>
thanks<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></div></div><span class="">
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<br>
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