<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Jordan Carter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">hi Seun<div><br></div><div>I'm sorry, but this is simply not correct.</div><div><br></div><div>Nobody is proposing to change the bylaws provisions that set out the current appointment process. They are enforceable under the law.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I am not sure i get what you are saying is not correct here, where in my mail did i say the appointment process will be changed. What i said was that based on CMSM, the power to appoint/remove board would lie on the CMSM (since that is the single member). We have however determined that the appointment process by SO/AC remain the same even though its still the member that has appointed "technically" <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>There is a legal "rubber stamp" for the decisions of the SOs, the ALAC and the NomCom, but in substance things are as they are today. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>+1 for today but i am talking about post transition and when CMSM is implemented. <br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>There is no proposal to give the "member" the right to second-guess those appointment decisions. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>+1 and that is what i understood as well.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>The question we are debating is whether the same in reverse should apply to removal, or whether there actually should be some discretion or decision beyond the appointing body.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Exactly my point and i don't think the reverse should happen.<br><br></div><div>I hope that clarifies my point. Again i have no problem about appointment, i however have about removal<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div>Jordan</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 18 July 2015 at 16:37, Seun Ojedeji <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span>On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Greg Shatan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I'm not Seun, but it's clear to me that for appointments, it is (a) and not (b). In other words, the CMSM is a pure pass-through of SO/AC board appointments, and has no capacity to debate or vote on a particular SO/AC's appointments.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Correct! and by such CMSM pass through, the SO/AC is indirectly agreeing that the particular board member will act in the interest of CMSM (the organisation/community) and so the removal process should require confirmation from CMSM that the board indeed violated such community interest (as defined in the bylaw)<br><br></div><div>I think its important we note that no single SO/AC will have a right to legally appoint/remove post-transition.<br><br></div><div>Regards<br></div><div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Seun Ojedeji <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span>On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Alan Greenberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Seun, my message was only about appointments.<br>
<br>
To be clear, is it your understanding that when an SO or AC selects a Board member, a) the CMSM *must* make that appointment, or b) may the other SO/ACS vote not to?<br>
<br>
a or b?<span><font color="#888888"><br></font></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Not sure i got your option "b" correctly. It is my understanding that if SO or AC selects board members post-transition they will be doing so as CMSM (since thats the only mechanism to formerly appoint and remove members)<br><br></div><div>That said, i think one point from Jordan's summary would be sufficient for me as it concerns board removal requirements:<br><br><div></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div><b>1. Consultation requirement added</b></div><div><b><br></b></div>Where
the process to remove a director or the Board is triggered, there would
be a public discussion in the Community Forum to discuss the matter,
before the decision-maker is allowed to take a vote.<br></blockquote><br></div><div>Just for record, i am more about the removal process and not the appointment.<br><br></div><div>Regards<br></div><span><div><br><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><span><font color="#888888">
<br>
Alan<br>
-- <br>
Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.</font></span><span><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On July 18, 2015 3:50:15 PM GMT+02:00, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hello Alan,<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Alan Greenberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Seun, I think that you may have misunderstood. The CMSM would be required pass on the appointment decisions of the SO/AC/NomCom, but it would not take an independent decision on these. The decision to appoint would remain the sole right of the individual SO, AC or NomCom.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think i understand that correctly Alan; even though SO,AC or Nomcom appoints, the bylaw would legally recognise that the appointments were made by CMSM. Otherwise there will not have been need for item 2 below as presented by legal council:<br><br>ICANN Bylaw moderation required for
CMSM:<br> - Set up community mechanism
as sole member
<br>- Alter director selection
process so CMSM <b>elects</b>
directors
<br>- Address membership
structure with one member <br><br></div><div>In my country the president appoints its minister but the "house of assembly" approves it. While we may say president indeed does indeed appoint constitutionally the assembly is part of the appointment.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
So we are not populating the Board collectively, the collective is simply honouring the decision of the individual organizations.<span><font color="#888888"><br></font></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Based on my above i hope you get my point now.<br><br></div><div>Again as its been said often, board removal is an unlikely thing to happen(although i will argue its because we have not such provision at the moment). However if we make SO/AC board member removal so independent of other parts of the community, then we may experience board removal often than we may have thought. <br><br>We need to know know every board member removed is removed because he did not act in-line with the bylaw and not necessarily because he/she did not act inline with a particular SO/AC's view (even though that can be a second reason)<br><br></div><div>Regards <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span><font color="#888888">
<br>
Alan</font></span><div><div><br>
<br>
At 18/07/2015 07:21 AM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
- SO/AC removing their individual board members goes against the concept of "Community Mechanism as Sole Member" (CMSM) which simply indicates that appointment of board members would now be executed by CMSM (even though individual SO/AC does the selection). So if we populate the board collectively why should we not so same for removal<br>
<br>
- It would make no procedural sense for us to exercise CMSM powers without the bodies that constitutes that mechanism approving it- I don't know of any organisation where this is done. Even in individual members based organisations, a member cannot remove any board member, its usually certain number of members.(including if it were board removing its member)<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
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<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br></div></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Jordan Carter<br><br>Chief Executive <br><b>InternetNZ</b><br><br>04 495 2118 (office) | <a href="tel:%2B64%2021%20442%20649" value="+6421442649" target="_blank">+64 21 442 649</a> (mob)<br><a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a> <br>Skype: jordancarter<br><br><i>A better world through a better Internet </i><br><br></div></div></div></div>
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<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
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