<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">Hi,<br><br>On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Kieren McCarthy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kieren@kierenmccarthy.com" target="_blank">kieren@kierenmccarthy.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br>I think this might be where a lot of the disagreements in general over accountability are coming from.<br><br>For example, ICANN is set up as a member organization but has no members. </div></blockquote><div><br><div></div>Depending on the outcome of CCWG second PC, will ICANN becoming a "form of" member organisation address this part? because that seem to be the current direction of CCWG<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>It is based in California but wishes to be an international organization.<br></div></blockquote><div> </div>There are many other organisations that are international as well and they all have a base.<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br>I would argue that the very point where ICANN is right now is where it needs to stop being an American corporation and start being an internationall public benefit organization.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Honestly its interesting to see how ICANN which is basically a record creation/keeping body is desired to be of many forms. Perhaps its good to hear what it need to do to achieve what you suggested above? as i thought the NTIA stewardship transition was a strong of that move (even though its current stewardship has not caused any significant sense of denial of ICANN service to certain part of the world)<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br>And that means opening up to real accountability rather than keeping everything in house.<span class=""><font color="#888888"><br><br></font></span></div></blockquote><div>I expect that there would be more accountability improvements by the implementation of the ccwg outcomes. It does not necessarily mean there hasn't been improvements either....nevertheless i guess i may be taking this too lightly perhaps because i wans't there when it all started and i am grateful for that as its likely to have had implications on how i evaluate issues.<br><br></div><div>Regards <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><span class=""><font color="#888888"><br>Kieren</font></span></div><div class=""><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:41 PM Chris Disspain <<a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" target="_blank">ceo@auda.org.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="font-family:"Verdana";font-size:13px;color:rgb(102,102,102)">Thank you James. <div><br></div><div>Speaking as a real life, actual CEO…I agree.<br><div>
<p><br></p>
<p><br></p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p><br></p>
<p>Chris</p>
</div></div></span></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="font-family:"Verdana";font-size:13px;color:rgb(102,102,102)"><div>
<br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 18 Jul 2015, at 05:30 , James M. Bladel <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com" target="_blank">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div>
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<div><span></span></div>
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<div>The more I consider the idea of holding staff "accountable" to "The Community," the more convinced I am that this would fast become an organizational nightmare. </div>
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</div>
<div>Non-exec members of staff should be held accountable to their direct supervisor, and the chain of authority up to the CEO. It is not appropriate to insert the Community in that hierarchy, or to haul these folks in front of public inquiry committees. You
have mentioned that the community would not make hire/fire decisions, so what is the point of this exercise, except to publicly shame the staff member, sully their professional reputation, and destroy their future career prospects? No sane person would want
to work for ICANN if it means subjecting themselves to several thousand self-appointed bosses, who may or may not have any relevant expertise to judge the employee's performance. The near-term outcome would be an exodus of anyone with talent. And recruiting
competent new hires would be difficult, expensive, or both. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Executive employees are a different story, but even in their case I believe that community influence should be indirect, such as including a community review as a component of their annual performance review, or notifying the CEO if the exec no longer
has the trust and confidence of the community. If the CEO repeatedly fails to act on this, the he or she should be shown the door. <br>
<br>
Thank you,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>J.</div>
<div>____________</div>
<div>James Bladel</div>
<div>GoDaddy</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 17, 2015, at 20:39, Kieren McCarthy <<a href="mailto:kieren@kierenmccarthy.com" target="_blank">kieren@kierenmccarthy.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> some personnel issues should remain confidential,
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<div>I don't understand why people keep putting this strawman out there. No one is suggesting, or indeed has ever suggested, that personnel issues be included in a proper accountability mechanism. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> Why would a strengthened ombudsman not be a good fit for this role?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'll give you three good reasons:</div>
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</div>
<div>1. The Ombudsman was created in 2004. Despite numerous efforts to make the role effective, it has never happened. Why keep making the same mistake?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. The Ombudsman is completely reliant on ICANN corporate. For access to people and documents, for resources, for salary, for technical support, for logistical support, for an office, for a room at ICANN meetings, for everything except his own body. And
his role and what he can do is determined by ICANN's legal department in the rules that they wrote. The Ombudsman also signs a very strong confidentiality agreement with ICANN that effectively ties their hands on everything except illegal activity. See point
1.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3. An Ombudsman is a single person. And one completely reliant on ICANN. This provides an enormous degree of control by ICANN and very little freedom for the accountability role the Ombusdsman is supposed to fulfill. There are numerous people able to testify
that ICANN corporate has no hesitation in applying significant pressure on individuals if they act in a way that it deemed a potential threat. All of those people are however under confidentiality agreements with ICANN.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div>The only way to bring actual accountability to ICANN is to have people that are not dependent on ICANN and are not muzzled by confidentiality agreements asking the questions. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And those people are... the 2,000 people that turn up to ICANN meetings. The community. </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kieren</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:06 PM, David Cake <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:dave@difference.com.au" target="_blank">dave@difference.com.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Eberhard has a point.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are legitimate reasons for staff to want to not answer some questions - some personnel issues should remain confidential, some security issues should have disclosure delayed until the problem has been fixed or mitigated, etc. </div>
<div>The Ombudsman should have access to any internal document, and the discretion and training to decide what is reasonable to release. Why would a strengthened ombudsman not be a good fit for this role?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards </div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>David</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>(my first post to CCWG Accountability - hi everybody)</div>
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<div>
<div>On 16 Jul 2015, at 2:03 pm, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <<a href="mailto:epilisse@gmail.com" target="_blank">epilisse@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>Cool, another Ombudsman.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>el<br>
<br>
-- <span></span>
<div><span style="font-size:13pt">Sent from </span><span style="font-size:13pt">Dr Lisse's iPhone 5s</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 16, 2015, at 04:05, Phil Corwin <<a href="mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com" target="_blank">psc@vlaw-dc.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">How about an independent inspector general?<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><br></div>
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</blockquote>
[...]</div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
</div></div>