<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Nobody has to publish their confidential information to the world in order to register a domain name. Privacy/proxy services are readily available and there is no formal proposal to take that away from anyone. I agree we can and should take this debate elsewhere, since it is a nuanced one, and there has been much misinformation spread on the topic. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">However, if adding the proposed language to the Bylaws changes how ICANN should "</font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px">determine where the human rights obligations fall"</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"> in the policy-making process relating to this issue, then this is a very significant change.</font></span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Greg</font></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Stephanie Perrin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
No actually I am referring to scammers, spammers, doxxers, and
really irritating (but not criminal) commercial elements who mine
the WHOIS database to pursue innocent folks who have to publish
their confidential information to the world in order to register a
domain name.<br>
A public directory is not the way to control lawbreakers who hide
behind proxy services, as has been amply debated in the recent PPSAI
public comments period. <br>
Anyway lets take this debate elsewhere as it does not contribute
much to the topic. Except, I would point out, that the risk balance
between the harm done by public disclosure through WHOIS has changed
in the 17 years that the Internet has been growing up, and it is
time to revisit who is at risk, and determine where the human rights
obligations fall. As you can tell, I believe privacy and the people
who need it are more at risk today than law enforcement operations
(who can find the registrars and the ISPs, and request the data they
need there, in addition to more relevant info such as payment
details). Disclosure of address and phone numbers is permanent and
irrevocable thanks to value added services that have grown up to
mine the WHOIS data. <br>
kind regards,<br>
Stephanie<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div>On 2015-07-30 11:18, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Stephanie,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Are you referring to
the criminal element who knows how to use WHOIS to hide
themselves? That is certainly a huge problem and not limited
to violations of criminal law -- it is also a huge problem
with regard to lawbreakers whose actions are not criminal in
nature.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:05 AM,
Stephanie Perrin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Totally
agree Nigel, but providing access to law enforcement is not
the same as publishing to the world, and the criminal
element who know how to use WHOIS. At the moment, options
for nuanced disclosure are limited.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
SP</font></span>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
On 2015-07-30 11:00, Nigel Roberts wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Stephanie<br>
<br>
The whole debate about the right to private and family
life is more nuanced.<br>
<br>
Without turning this list into a discussion on how
respect for human rights is guaranteed on this
contintent, it's worth pointing out that respecting
the right of privacy does NOT mean closing off domain
registration data to law enforcment. Quite the
opposite.<br>
<br>
The privacy right is a qualified right -- so it CAN be
interfered with<br>
<br>
- lawfully, when necessary in a democratic society; so
long as it is<br>
- proportionate.<br>
<br>
And I don't think that conflicts with anybody's
'marching orders'.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 30/07/15 15:53, Stephanie Perrin wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I hate to complicate this discussion, but I feel
duty bound to point out<br>
that the first human right many people think of
these days with respect<br>
to the domain name registration system is privacy.
Freedom of<br>
expression and the openness of the Internet rolls
more easily off the<br>
tongue....but if anyone says what about privacy, the
WHOIS would have to<br>
be re-examined. This of course conflicts with the
marching orders that<br>
the NTIA has had for ICANN since its inception.<br>
Stephanie Perrin<br>
<br>
On 2015-07-30 5:59, Erika Mann wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
In addition to Avri's points, such a provision
could help as well to<br>
ensure that future business models that relate to
more sensitive<br>
strings (.gay for example) will continue to be
treated as any other<br>
string.<br>
<br>
Erika<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
Off the top of my head, I think a first thing
we would have to do<br>
would<br>
be to start understanding the impact, if any,
of ICANN operations and<br>
policies on human rights. Some of this work
is already starting<br>
in the<br>
human rights working party (HRWP), though that
is a rather informal<br>
beginning. I would also think that some part
of the staff would<br>
need to<br>
start taking these issues into consideration.
I do not think that it<br>
would cause any serious changes in the near
future but would make us<br>
more aware as time went on, and would give us
a basis for discussion<br>
both in the HRWP and in the ACSO and Board.<br>
<br>
In terms of the specific things it might limt
us from, and this would<br>
require some analysis on specifc events, might
be creating any<br>
kinds of<br>
policies or operations that forced limitation
of content, beyond the<br>
limitations required by law for incitement, on
domain named sites. It<br>
would in fact strengthen our postion in that
respect.<br>
<br>
Most important though, it would cover a hole
left by the loss of the<br>
NTIA backstop, on any issue concerning freedom
of expression, free<br>
flow<br>
of information or openness of the Internet.<br>
<br>
thanks<br>
avri<br>
<br>
On 30-Jul-15 11:07, Drazek, Keith wrote:<br>
> Hi Chris,<br>
><br>
> I'll have to defer to others with more
expertise on this one.<br>
It's a<br>
> good question that should be addressed.<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
> Keith<br>
><br>
> On Jul 30, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Chris
Disspain <<a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" target="_blank">ceo@auda.org.au</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" target="_blank">ceo@auda.org.au</a>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" target="_blank">ceo@auda.org.au</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" target="_blank">ceo@auda.org.au</a>>>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Keith,<br>
>><br>
>> This looks interesting. Could we
think of an example of something<br>
>> concrete ICANN would have to do if it
made this commitment? Or<br>
>> something it would not be able to do?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Chris<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> On 30 Jul 2015, at 18:16 ,
Drazek, Keith <<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>>>>
wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi Avri,<br>
>>><br>
>>> In order to tie your suggestion
directly to the language in<br>
>>> Secretary Strickling's April 2014
written congressional testimony<br>
>>> (included in a prior email) and
to reduce concerns about scope<br>
>>> creep, would language along these
lines be acceptable to you?<br>
>>><br>
>>>> "Within its mission and in
its operations, ICANN will be<br>
committed<br>
>>>> to respect the fundamental
human rights of the exercise of free<br>
>>>> expression and the free flow
of information."<br>
>>><br>
>>> Speaking personally, I could
probably support this formulation. To<br>
>>> be clear, I have not discussed
this with the RySG, but it's<br>
>>> consistent with the requirements
outlined by NTIA so I think it's<br>
>>> certainly worth considering.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm not advocating including this
in the Bylaws, but I'm not<br>
>>> objecting to it either. However,
if we don't reach consensus for<br>
>>> adding to the Bylaws, I
definitely think this is worth further<br>
>>> consideration in WS2 and would
support an explicit reference using<br>
>>> this or similar language and
timetable for doing so.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Regards,<br>
>>> Keith<br>
>>><br>
>>>> On Jul 30, 2015, at 8:11 AM,
Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>><br>
>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>>>>
wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Within its mission, ICANN
will be committed to respect<br>
fundamental<br>
>>>> human rights in its
operationsespecially with regard to the<br>
exercise<br>
>>>> of free expression or the
free flow of information.<br>
>>>
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