<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Mike</div><div>We have not agreed that it is current subject.</div><div>Who has so decided?</div><div>Regrards</div><div>Kavouss </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-10-01 10:50 GMT+02:00 Chartier, Mike S <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mike.s.chartier@intel.com" target="_blank">mike.s.chartier@intel.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Kavouss,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> “unincorporated association” is the current proposal, so definitely not abandoned.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Mike<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="1502298cc476caf5__MailEndCompose"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rosemary E. Fei<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 1, 2015 4:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Kavouss Arasteh'</span><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Accountability Cross Community (<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] FW: Regarding GAC participation<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Dear Kavouss:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Since it is a sensitive point, please let me clarify that I was merely letting the list know where it can find the answer to a narrow question about unincorporated
associations that has been asked and answered before, and which came up in an email thread today.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">I am certainly not proposing that the CCWG consider (or reconsider) anything, if that’s what you mean by “coming back” -- such a proposal would exceed my remit from
the CCWG as I understand it. I would not insert myself into the CCWG’s discussions in that way.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Rosemary<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">Rosemary E. Fei</span><span style="color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">Adler & Colvin</span><span style="color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">235 Montgomery Street, Suite 1220</span><span style="color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">San Francisco, CA 94104</span><span style="color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt"><a href="tel:415%2F421-7555" target="_blank" value="+14154217555">415/421-7555</a> (phone)</span><span style="color:black"><br>
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</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt"><a href="mailto:rfei@adlercolvin.com" target="_blank">rfei@adlercolvin.com</a></span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:11pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">_____________________________</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> Kavouss Arasteh [<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 01, 2015 1:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rosemary E. Fei<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Accountability Cross Community (<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] FW: Regarding GAC participation<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Rosemary<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Are you coming back to "<em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)">a California unincorporated association "</span></em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)"> again???</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)">We have abadonned that</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)">:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)">Regards</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)">Kavouss (</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2015-10-01 2:24 GMT+02:00 Rosemary E. Fei <<a href="mailto:rfei@adlercolvin.com" target="_blank">rfei@adlercolvin.com</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Dear CCWG:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">We responded to the question in red in the email below, which someone also asked in the August 25 webinar.
We added the response when we were asked to review and edit the webinar Q&A. I’m not sure when this got posted, but I think it was on the “last modified” date of September 21.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in">
<span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><a href="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=54695403" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=54695403</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">See the CCWG Legal Counsel’s Response to Question 48, reproduced here:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white;line-height:14.3pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in">
<u><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">CCWG Legal Counsel's Response</span></u><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">: <i> <em><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">If the
sole member is</span></em> <em><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">formed as a California unincorporated association (since it would need to be a legal person in order to be a statutory member of ICANN), participants in the Sole Member unincorporated
association would not liable for the debts, obligations, or liabilities of the association solely by reason of being participants, as stated in California Corporations Code Section 18605.</span></em></i></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="background:white;line-height:14.3pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:0.5in">
<em><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Corporations Code Section 18630 simply points out the legal principle of common-law alter-ego liability, applicable not only to unincorporated associations but also to corporations
and other limited-liability entities such as limited liability companies. For example, under this principle a corporate shareholder could be held liable for the debts of a corporation that is operated so closely by or in connection with the shareholder that
it has ceased to have a separate existence for practical purposes (i.e., the corporation has been operated as the shareholder’s mere “alter ego”). Typically, however, a finding of alter-ego liability requires a number of egregious facts, including a commingling
of funds between the shareholder and the corporation and a failure to observe corporate formalities. Courts may also require a demonstration of outright fraud. If the CMSM is administered according to the governance provisions to be included in the ICANN
Bylaws, we do not believe there would be a basis for a court to assert alter-ego liability against its participants.</span></em><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">While this does not respond to all of the questions posed in the email below, I hope that at least this
one answer is helpful. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Rosemary</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">Rosemary E. Fei</span><span style="color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">Adler & Colvin</span><span style="color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">235 Montgomery Street, Suite 1220</span><span style="color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">San Francisco, CA 94104</span><span style="color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt"><a href="tel:415%2F421-7555" target="_blank">415/421-7555</a> (phone)</span><span style="color:black"><br>
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</span><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.adlercolvin.com" target="_blank">www.adlercolvin.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">_____________________________</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif;font-size:10pt">Adler & Colvin is a San Francisco Green Business certified by the City and County of San Francisco. Please
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Perez Galindo, Rafael<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 30, 2015 2:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCWG-ACCT] Regarding GAC participation</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Good morning/afternoon/night to All<u></u><u></u></p>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>In order to make an informed decision on the role the GAC could take on in the different models under discussion, it is still unclear to me what the legal implications of participation in a voting mechanism are for governments, even more in the absence of
a precedent or parallel that we could draw on.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Hence, the ability for governments to participate in wider community voting processes under a foreign jurisdiction is a point I would like to raise with the CCWG's legal advisors, along with the issue of governments liability as participants e.g. in the
sole member of a non-for-profit corporation (which stems from the fact that governments would be subject to CA jurisdiction).
<span style="color:red">This issue was first raised by Anne Aikman-Scalese (9th september email) and I believe no answer has been provided to date: "<i>[...] I still did not receive an answer with respect to my question regarding the applicability of CA Corporations
Code Section 18630 which provides as follows: "Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, a member or person in control of a nonprofit association may be subject to liability for a debt, obligation, or liability of the association under common
law principles governing alter ego liability of shareholders of a corporation, taking into account the differences between a nonprofit association and a corporation.".</i></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><i> </i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p>In conclusion, I kindly ask the Co-Chairs to forward these questions to the CCWG legal advisors about (1) ability, (2) legal implications and (3) liabilities of governments if they took part as voting members in the community mechanism to be deployed under
CA jurisdiction. An answer should be provided for the three models under discussion (SMM, Single designator and MEM).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Looking forward to receiving the legal advice, thank you and best regards<u></u><u></u></p>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Rafael <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>GAC_SPAIN<u></u><u></u></p>
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