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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The Board’s proposal relies entirely on it’s statutory rights to be constrained by bylaws. If there is some question as to the sufficiency of relying on bylaw
changes to constrain (or enshrine) rights, then all the more reason for a member model to make the rights statutory.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris Disspain<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 1, 2015 9:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jordan Carter<br>
<b>Cc:</b> accountability-cross-community@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Lawyers' Meeting on Friday<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Hi Jordan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">"whether or not the decisions to exercise powers on the part of a member can be constrained”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">This as you say is very narrow but important. It is clear that the statutory rights cannot be abrogated. So they will always be available. The question is how
far they can be constrained. Constrained, to me, simply means how difficult can you make their exercise.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">We have had very clear advice from our counsel that this can be done.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">That is not my understanding. I think the advice has been that the lawyers believe it can be done but that there is no precedent to which they can point and therefore
no guarantee that such a constraint would be upheld in court. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">In any event, it appears that some members of the CCWG believe that there should be access to some, if not all of the statutory rights that a member would have.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="p1" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#9443FB">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#9443FB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#9443FB">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">On 1 Oct 2015, at 22:55 , Jordan Carter <<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Seun, all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">I stand by my comment - the error is very narrow but very important:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">"whether or not the decisions to exercise powers on the part of a member can be constrained"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">We have had very clear advice from our counsel that this can be done. The board members in LA both in the meeting and in the corridors argued it can't, and they
seemed to be arguing based on advice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">If there was advice from their Lawyers I want us all to see it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">If there was not, I want to know that too.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Both are very reasonable questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Jordan <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><br>
<br>
On Thursday, 1 October 2015, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">While I wish Bruce wisdom in answering your question. I don't understand how you conclude that it's
erroneous. From my "very" little understanding of law, there are more than one way to achieve a goal and none of them lacks consequences (disadvantage).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">We have requested CCWG legal to provide their view about board proposal, I don't know what is more
useful than that document produced(unless we don't trust CCWG legal as well). I mean, how differently would we have responded by seeing the notes other than the way we have to board's proposal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">That said, this does not mean I am discouraging transparency but just to indicate that our answer/solution
to settle the current disagreement is most likely not in those notes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Regards<br>
Sent from my Asus Zenfone2<br>
Kindly excuse brevity and typos.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">On 1 Oct 2015 10:24, "Jordan Carter" <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jordan@internetnz.net.nz');" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Hi Bruce<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">What advice has Jones Day or ICANN's in house legal team given to the Board - either directly or through management - or directly to management - that has led
to erroneous conclusions regarding whether or not the decisions to exercise powers on the part of a member can be constrained or not?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Such erroneous conclusions were evident from the comments of some board members in Los Angeles.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Can that advise or a summary of it be shared with the CCWG?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Jordan <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><br>
<br>
On Thursday, 1 October 2015, Bruce Tonkin <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au');" target="_blank">Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Hello Farzaneh,<br>
<br>
<br>
>> I understand that the Board has made the Jones Day impact assessment available. But in a note it states that it has had discussions with advisors and staff. I would also like to request for any document that the Board has received in its discussion with
the advisors and staff and notes of the deliberation of their meetings.<br>
<br>
Yes our intent is to make all documents available. So far the only one that I am aware of is the Jones Day analysis that was published.<br>
<br>
We received verbal briefings form the Advisors to the CCWG (<a href="https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Advisors" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/Advisors</a>) , and I understand these advisors also gave verbal
briefings to the CCWG, as well as any written comments they have posted to the public comments forum.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Bruce Tonkin<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#888888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Jordan Carter<br>
Chief Executive, InternetNZ<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#888888"><a href="tel:%2B64-21-442-649" target="_blank">+64-21-442-649</a> |
<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jordan@internetnz.net.nz');" target="_blank">
jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#888888">Sent on the run, apologies for brevity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#888888"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org');" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Jordan Carter<br>
Chief Executive, InternetNZ<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">+64-21-442-649 |
<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">Sent on the run, apologies for brevity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666">_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#666666"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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