<div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div> <font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">Dear All,</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">This message is address to all of us from A to Z</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">We are all in one way or other .making our utmost
efforts in a hardworking and tireless manner and beyond the call for duty to
contribute at these critical period to address the mons complex issue of ICANN
enhanced accountability.</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">We all know that the ICANN Board severely resists to
AGREE to the SMM and promoting its own MEM.</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">As I mentioned in LA, we need to be open-minded and
examine all proposals on their merits.</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">There is no proposal which is perfect. There are some
which are more responsive to the enhanced accountability and also others which
less solid and responsive.</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">We need to look at all proposals and find out whether
there rooms/ ways and means <span> </span>to take
either one ,if consensus is emerged on that opted model or try to find out
whether there is some way out to reach a compromise but o not on the expense of
quality or objectives .</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">I am not comfortable to read message with strong tone
vis a vis our colleagues.</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">If we have a valid point we should try to sell it with
logic, ethic, kindness and mutual respect.</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">May I kindly request all of us to be so kind with each
other so as not to be emotional or exceed the limit of a mutually acceptable
conversation.</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">It is up to you to agree or disagree.</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">But we could be more productive if we lower the tone
and speak with each other nicely, kindly, and respectfully.</font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="line-height:115%;font-size:14pt"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri">Kavouss </font></span></p><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-10-03 18:21 GMT+02:00 Avri Doria <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
I do not think we all have accepted the inevitability of MEM. But I<br>
think those who see great urgency in the transition, knowing that this<br>
is possibly the the only thing the Board will agree to*, seem inclined<br>
to accept what they can get.<br>
<br>
And while it is not the position I take, I can see the logic in that.<br>
If you believe that transition is the most important goal, then nothing<br>
can be allowed to stand in its way: we should do what the other OCs did,<br>
accept that the status quo of the ICANN relationship is good and move on<br>
with a few tweaks. For all its problems MEM is an improvement. Until<br>
MEM it was declared legally impossible for the Board to ever have<br>
binding mediation or arbitration with the community or any part thereof,<br>
except for contracted parties within the context of their contract. Last<br>
year, before the transition process was initiated, MEM would have been<br>
greeted with cries of Hosanna.<br>
<br>
I have a paper copy of Milton's book and even read it when i first got<br>
involved with ICANN in 2005 and believed it a good introduction to many<br>
of the issues. I also recommend people read it. But history does not<br>
repeat itself, as juxtaposition of 2 quotes indicates: it may rhyme, but<br>
things are never the same, "one can not step in the same river twice."<br>
This situation is different, though it may rhyme. One essential<br>
difference is that the origins of ICANN included the NTIA backstop until<br>
such time as that oversight withered away. Any solution we may come up<br>
with will not have that element.<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
* (Unless of course you assume a party in a negotiation never puts their<br>
bottom line as their initial negotiating position)<br>
<div><div class="h5"><br>
On 03-Oct-15 11:41, Nigel Roberts wrote:<br>
> I remain confused. Have we accepted the MEM, because it originated<br>
> from the Board in a few hours discussion, as being a better<br>
> alternative than the 9 months of debate originating SMM?<br>
> (Nothwithstanding that I personally don't like a *SINGLE* member<br>
> membership model).<br>
><br>
> The point I'm (repeatedly) making is one of process, not merits of the<br>
> competing models.<br>
><br>
><br>
> 'RULING THE ROOT'<br>
> -----------------<br>
><br>
> Over the last 48 hours I've been reading Milton Mueller's excellent<br>
> history: 'Ruling the Root'. (Hi Milton!). Despite the fact I've seen<br>
> by personal observation of how Milton can, in person, be at least as<br>
> "ornery", as Dr Lisse, which might otherwise cloud my judgment, I<br>
> cannot recommend this book more highly.<br>
><br>
> It sets out, in exquisite and fully referenced detail, the previous<br>
> occasions (yes, plural) that "an aggressive timescale" led to<br>
> unexpected outcomes.<br>
><br>
> I will be blunt. If you haven't read this book (or done so a long<br>
> time) then you are failing in your duty towards achieving the goal of<br>
> the WG and it should be your next task.<br>
><br>
> I'm actually really sorry I didn't read this months and years ago;<br>
> just because I lived a large part of it did not prepare me for the<br>
> fact that this book<br>
><br>
> (a) synthesises the dynamics that went on in the creation of ICANN and<br>
> documents it to 'before the dawn of (internet) time'.<br>
><br>
> (b) provides a cautionary tale.<br>
><br>
><br>
> It seems to me that the CCWG is hell bent on repeating the mistakes of<br>
> our predecessors rather more closely than I'd already said.<br>
><br>
> It needs to be required reading for every single ICANN Board Member,<br>
> GAC rep and member of this CCWG.<br>
><br>
> And it's available on Kindle.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Nigel Roberts<br>
><br>
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:55 PM, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Case dismissed.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Greg, I think we bring so much legal stuff into this that makes us<br>
>>> forget the element of nature called "choice".<br>
>>><br>
>>> Can you tell me the outcome of a scenario where the community by<br>
>>> "choice" decides to ask/mandate board to implement certain things<br>
>>> and then if board by choice decides not to implement such request.<br>
>>> Does the community go into the implementation without paying<br>
>>> recognition to the board or what?<br>
>>><br>
>>> My point was that it is ultimately the judge's verdict that<br>
>>> enforce and not necessarily the membership nor MEM. All through<br>
>>> the escalation process before courts, the community and/or the<br>
>>> board has a choice to make and because there is membership should<br>
>>> not be perceived as final except the court says so.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Membership however provides the standing to get to enforce in<br>
>>> courts (and such standing is what we are/should also be checking<br>
>>> if it exist within MEM). So membership is not itself the end but<br>
>>> just the means to the end.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Again focusing on the means(model) and not the end(goals) is what<br>
>>> has been prolonging this process for so long. Earlier in this<br>
>>> process, I mentioned that some of us have limited resources and<br>
>>> cannot continue this aggressive process for so long. Perhaps this<br>
>>> process will exhaust some of us and others well motivated can then<br>
>>> have their way.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I rest my case!<br>
>>><br>
>>> Regards<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sent from my Asus Zenfone2<br>
>>> Kindly excuse brevity and typos.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 3 Oct 2015 00:27, "Greg Shatan" <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Seun,<br>
>>><br>
>>> You are incorrect about how a US membership non-profit<br>
>>> corporation works, and how the membership relates to the<br>
>>> Board. In a membership non-profit, the membership has certain<br>
>>> superior rights vis a vis the Board. I believe this is clear<br>
>>> from the Sidley/Adler documents.<br>
>>><br>
>>> If there is no membership, then the community can only ASK<br>
>>> board to do things. That seems to be your desired outcome,<br>
>>> but I don't think that is broadly shared within the CCWG. I<br>
>>> think this goes beyond even the Board comments, where they are<br>
>>> willing to give the Community things that at least look like<br>
>>> powers (though subject ultimately to the Board's discretion<br>
>>> and judgment)<br>
>>><br>
>>> The only reason I can think that "going to court to enforce<br>
>>> would be more closer in the escalation process than we may be<br>
>>> thinking" is the tone and approach of this memo.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Greg<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Seun Ojedeji<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi Avri,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I think it needs to be clear that the community can only<br>
>>> ASK board to do things, whether they would do it is<br>
>>> entirely at the discretion of the board. This is normal<br>
>>> for membership setup as the community has no executive<br>
>>> status to implement.<br>
>>><br>
>>> That said, I am in full agreement with trying to resolve<br>
>>> things locally as much as possible and if you ask me, I<br>
>>> don't think membership will encourage that approach. Going<br>
>>> to court to enforce would be more closer in the escalation<br>
>>> process than we may be thinking.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Regards<br>
>>> Sent from my Asus Zenfone2<br>
>>> Kindly excuse brevity and typos.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 2 Oct 2015 23:50, "Avri Doria" <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Ultimately yes, they can all end up in court.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The critical issue in my mind is how many steps we can<br>
>>> take inside the<br>
>>> organizations process to remedy before having to<br>
>>> resort to the ultimate<br>
>>> nastyness - appearing before a judge. I think each<br>
>>> trip to court is a<br>
>>> failure to be avoided. Our model needs to deal<br>
>>> properly with shared<br>
>>> decision making while allowing for problem resolution<br>
>>> in a way that<br>
>>> avoids such failures.<br>
>>><br>
>>> avri<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 02-Oct-15 18:21, Chris Disspain wrote:<br>
>>> > I don’t disagree with you Avri but isn’t going to<br>
>>> court the ultimate<br>
>>> > enforceability in any of the models/ideas we have<br>
>>> been discussing?<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Cheers,<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Chris<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> >> On 2 Oct 2015, at 21:07 , Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a><br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>><br>
>>> >> <mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>>>> wrote:<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Hi,<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> Within ICANN, it rests with the Board.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> I resist the idea of including going to court as a<br>
>>> normal part of our<br>
>>> >> process. I have argued all the way through this<br>
>>> process, that going to<br>
>>> >> court is something to be avoided and something we<br>
>>> should not consider to<br>
>>> >> be part of the process. Yes at the end of the day<br>
>>> it needs to be<br>
>>> >> possible, but it is a failure indication.<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> avri<br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >><br>
>>> >> On 02-Oct-15 06:57, Chris Disspain wrote:<br>
>>> >>> No Avri. At the end of the day it rests with the<br>
>>> court as I believe is<br>
>>> >>> clear from the note from JD.<br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>> After a finding by an arbitration panel that a<br>
>>> bylaw has been<br>
>>> >>> breached, it is a matter for the Board about how<br>
>>> they remedy (as I<br>
>>> >>> believe is the case with the member model also)<br>
>>> and that remedy is<br>
>>> >>> itself subject to a claim that it breaches a bylaw<br>
>>> (if the community<br>
>>> >>> has consensus). If the Board refuses to abide by<br>
>>> the ruling then a<br>
>>> >>> court can order them to do so.<br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>> Have I misunderstood the way the member model<br>
>>> works. I believe Becky<br>
>>> >>> has said numerous times that the only finding<br>
>>> could be that the<br>
>>> >>> relevant bylaw has been breached, NOT that the<br>
>>> Board must take a<br>
>>> >>> specific action. Is that wrong?<br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>> Cheers,<br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>> Chris<br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>>> On 2 Oct 2015, at 20:46 , Avri Doria<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>><br>
>>> >>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>>><br>
>>> >>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>>>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>> >>>><br>
>>> >>>> Hi,<br>
>>> >>>><br>
>>> >>>> That was one of my favorite lines as well.<br>
>>> >>>><br>
>>> >>>> And is a key point. In the current model, and as<br>
>>> far as I can tell in<br>
>>> >>>> the MEM, at the end of the day, all always rests<br>
>>> "within the Board's<br>
>>> >>>> discretion."<br>
>>> >>>><br>
>>> >>>> avri<br>
>>> >>>><br>
>>> >>>><br>
>>> >>>> On 02-Oct-15 05:29, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:<br>
>>> >>>>> I really LOVE this one:<br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>> [...]<br>
>>> >>>>> "the Board is required to remedy that violation,<br>
>>> within the<br>
>>> >>>>> Board’s discretion."<br>
>>> >>>>> [...]<br>
>>> >>>>><br>
>>> >>>>> (last line on Page 1)<br>
>>> >>>><br>
>>> >>>><br>
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>>> >>><br>
>>> >>><br>
>>> >>><br>
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