<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Avri,</div><div>That is one of my preoccupation that we avoisd voting .</div><div>Tks for proposal</div><div>Pls read my reply to our distinguished Paul</div><div>Kavouss </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-10-05 17:28 GMT+02:00 Kavouss Arasteh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><img width="1" height="1" alt="Images intégrées 9" src="cid:ii_150389bd163f0f30">Dear Paul</div><span><div style="margin-top:0px">Thank you very much for your message</div></span><div style="margin-top:0px">I was really delighted to receive such a nice words from you </div><div style="margin-top:0px">Sorry MY message was prematurely sent before I edit that.</div><div style="margin-top:0px">I fact I copied some part of your message to use it in my reply</div><div style="margin-top:0px">However, it was sent before I finish.</div><div style="margin-top:0px">PLS READ THAT MESSAGE void I repeat the reply as follows</div><div style="margin-top:0px"> Dear Paul<font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">Thank you
very much for your message and your analysis,</font></span></p><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">I wish if I
could continue to support SMM. But we need to avoid that few SOs which would
probably participate in the voting with threshold of 2/3 ( say 3 SOs with 15
votes ,the 2/3 of which become 10 would decide <span> </span>rejecting standard Bylaws changes .This means
out of 29 weighting vote 10 reject the changes which may be beneficial for 4
ACs .Is that the way you and your overwhelming majority wants to capture the
entire commune by 10 votes out of 29 VOTES ???<br>
it is not the "few" who have <span> </span>DIFFICULTIES<span>
</span>with MSM ,as I do not your counting criteria. There is no such overwhelming
majority supporting the SMM. The whole accountability method was the
results of many back and forth options and just few partisans pushed for SMM.</font></span></p><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">I did not
severely objected to it until the issue was discussed at ICANN 53 that two ACs announced
that they will not participate, another AC is also likely in a position not to
participate .then remains 3 or 4 out of 7 communities .</font></span></p><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">Then ICANN clearly
opposed to SMM and ,in particular, its inherent voting concept. Very probably
NTIA does not wish that GAC attend 7 participate at any voting as they have
mentioned that they insist that GAC must remain as an Advisory Community. Then your
SMM makes changes which touches the very interests of ACs and other who do not
participate at voting and still you wish to impose the decision made by 10 vote
to other communities with almost double number of votes weighting criteria .The
interests of a minority prevails against the interest of majority. That is not
acceptable .There are several question and NOT some questions about the
structure of the SMM,, its accountability, And Fiduciary to the entire
community which are much more larger than those 7 SOs<span> </span>and ACs in the beloved SMM.</font></span></p><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">The 300 (!)
messages on the chat and the transcripts from Paris, LA and the Board calls suggests
that the if it were put to a straight vote the SMM would NOT win since there
are much more than that who have not decided or they are abstention .You may
know that if the number of abstention is more than those voted in favour or
against the voting is in valid.</font></span></p><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">Either we
want to dominate others or we want to talk and negotiate and collaborate with
others.</font></span></p><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">There is neither
superiority nor domination. The only criteria is democracy, mutual respect,
working together with a view to reach consensus.</font></span></p><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">It was good
to hear from you and learn from you .</font></span></p><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">We continue
to learn from each other’s if we listen to each other’s</font></span></p><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">Cheers my
dead Paul, I remain</font></span></p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">Kavouss </font></span></p><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3">
</font></div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-10-05 16:54 GMT+02:00 Kavouss Arasteh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir="ltr"><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr">Dear Paul,</div><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr">Thank you very much for your message and your abnalysis,</div><div style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr">I wish if I could continue to support SMM. But we need to avoid the few SSs which would probably participate the voting with 273obUT WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL OF THE CONSEQUENCE THAT FEW sOs h respect, it is not the "few" who have agreed. As I read the history, the overwhelming majority support the SMM. There are some questions (per your "b" bullet below) about the precise structure of the SMM, but a mere review of the last 300 (!) messages on the chat and the transcripts from Paris, LA and the Board calls suggests that the if it were put to a straight vote the SMM would win by a large margin.</div><span><p dir="ltr">This is not an argument that the SMM must win. But it is a counter to the argument that the dissent of a small, but vocal, minority should be able to exercise a heckler's veto over a proposal that the majority of the community supports. If the multi-stakeholder model means anything, it means compromise in t he first instance, and respect for everyone's views. But it does not mean regression to the least common denominator or that the community's broader needs must yield to an intransigent minority.</p><p dir="ltr">Paul</p></span></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-10-05 16:44 GMT+02:00 Paul Rosenzweig <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div><p style="margin-top:0px" dir="ltr">With respect, it is not the "few" who have agreed. As I read the history, the overwhelming majority support the SMM. There are some questions (per your "b" bullet below) about the precise structure of the SMM, but a mere review of the last 300 (!) messages on the chat and the transcripts from Paris, LA and the Board calls suggests that the if it were put to a straight vote the SMM would win by a large margin.</p>
<p dir="ltr">This is not an argument that the SMM must win. But it is a counter to the argument that the dissent of a small, but vocal, minority should be able to exercise a heckler's veto over a proposal that the majority of the community supports. If the multi-stakeholder model means anything, it means compromise in t he first instance, and respect for everyone's views. But it does not mean regression to the least common denominator or that the community's broader needs must yield to an intransigent minority.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Paul</p>
<p dir="ltr">--<br>
Sent from myMail app for Android</p>
Monday, 05 October 2015, 10:31AM -04:00 from Kavouss Arasteh <<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>:<div><div><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 10px;padding:0px 0px 0px 10px;border-left-color:rgb(252,44,56);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" cite="http://14440555280000080321">
<div>
<div>
<div><div dir="ltr"><div>Jordan,</div><div>We should not pusjh to a particular model SMM while we have disagreement a) from the Board and b) from people among CCWG ,in partzicular, if the voting arrangements are maintained and if most of the ACs refrain to pop in/ or opt for voting and c) indication from others that with such voting by the ACs the balance between the private sectors and others, on the one hand, and governments on the other hand is c ompromised,</div><div>We need to listen to each others and not to few that have already agreed to SMM.</div><div>Pls kindly understand that there is diverghence of views .$</div><div>Let us find out a consensus along the line that was proposed by Stev and amended by me</div><div>Tks </div><div>Kavouss </div></div><div><br><div><div>2015-10-05 16:25 GMT+02:00 Kavouss Arasteh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3akavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><br><div>2015-10-05 15:38 GMT+02:00 Matthew Shears <span dir="ltr"><<a href="https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3amshears@cdt.org" target="_blank">mshears@cdt.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
+ 1 also <br><div><div>
<br>
<div>On 05/10/2015 13:54, James M. Bladel
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>+1. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Any claims that we must abbreviate
accountability reforms in order to fit the IANA transition
timeline has those two priorities reversed. <br>
<br>
Sent via iPhone. Blame Siri.
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Oct 2, 2015, at 19:44, Jordan Carter <<a href="https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3ajordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank"><a href="https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3ajordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</a></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks Avri for this nice statement of one of
the key dilemmas facing this group.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The divergence between:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- the transition can't happen until accountability is
sustainable, and so that requires the member model as a
foundation</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>and</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- the transition can't happen if there is a significant
change such as that to a member model, and so that
requires ruling out the member model</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>is quite stark.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>FWIW my instincts are in line with Avri's. If ICANN's
current level of accountability was acceptable, the
community would not have demanded an accountability
process alongside the transition process, and NTIA would
not have agreed the two had to be intertwined and
interrelated.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers</div>
<div>Jordan</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>On 1 October 2015 at 10:38, Avri
Doria <span dir="ltr"><<a href="https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3aavri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
Hi,<br>
<br>
The Board's critique rests on a notion that the
introduction of<br>
anything new in the ICANN system will be a destabilizing
factor and most<br>
be avoided.<br>
<br>
This ignores the fact that by removing the NTIA backstop
we destabilize<br>
the current system. It might have been possible to find
a new balance<br>
(not that the old worked that well given the amount of
discontent that<br>
existed prior to the CCWG process) by tweaking the
system. The early<br>
work of the CCWG, however, showed that this was not
enough. So we<br>
decided to bring back a notion that existed in the early
ICANN design,<br>
the idea of membership. Membership has always been part
of the kit that<br>
was available to ICANN in the multistakeholder model.
An initial<br>
experiment met with some issues and instead of fixing
that then, they<br>
threw the notion away without exploring possible tweaks
to the system.<br>
As a result we are living in ICANN 2.0, a system that
was imposed in a<br>
top down manner and one that was never fully accepted by
those at the<br>
bottom.<br>
<br>
Now, albeit in a very different configuration, the CCWG
is proposing to<br>
establish a community consensus based idea of
membership. I believe that<br>
this should be given a fair analysis before rejecting
it. It is also<br>
important to remember that the NTIA requirements were
not a prohibition<br>
of new mechanisms or structures, but rather evidence
that these<br>
structure did not increase the current risk, or fact, of
capture and<br>
that they could be held to account.<br>
<br>
The Board criticism is important to look at for
arguments that show the<br>
areas in which the CCWG plan either does not explain its
protections<br>
against capture and its accountability checks and
balances or may have<br>
gaps in these areas. If we cannot explain what we
propose, or cannot<br>
close the gaps, then it becomes time to consider
variations on the model<br>
or another model altogether. In my opinion, we are not
there.<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<br>
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<div style="font-size:small" dir="ltr">Jordan
Carter<br>
<br>
Chief Executive <br>
<b>InternetNZ</b><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small" dir="ltr"><br>
<a value="+6444952118"><span>+64-4-495-2118</span></a> (office) | <a value="+6421442649"><span>+64-21-442-649</span></a>
(mob)<br>
Email: <a style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" href="https://e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3ajordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a> <br>
Skype: jordancarter<br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Web: <a href="http://www.internetnz.nz" target="_blank">
<a href="http://www.internetnz.nz" target="_blank">www.internetnz.nz</a> </a></div>
<div style="font-size:small" dir="ltr"><br>
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Matthew Shears
Director - Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology
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