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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Paul,<br>
<br>
Earlier in the desultory discourse concerning this particular
scenario you shared your preference -- "to strip the GAC of its
privileged position" -- language you repeat in your note to Arun,
and the list.<br>
<br>
As the bylaws, from the original ones to the current bylaws,
contain language of the form "There shall be a Governmental
Advisory Committee" and additional language providing for notice
and comment aka transparency and accountability -- your point
would be that things have been rotten in Denmark* since Ira picked
Michael's and Ester's names out of a hat.<br>
<br>
Could any conceivable accountability mechanism ameliorate what you
see as "a privilege given to no other advisory committee"?<br>
<br>
Alternatively, would your passion diminish if the bylaws were
amended so that one, or several, or even all of the bylaws
advisory committees, had the same "privilege" to use your choice
of words, as governments?<br>
<br>
Is this about accountability, assuming there actually is a
substantive transition, or is this just about the role of
government?<br>
<br>
Eric Brunner-Williams, a non-member participant<br>
Eugene, Oregon <br>
<span><span><span></span></span></span><br>
* A non-CCWG, non-ICANN reference.<br>
<br>
On 10/27/15 1:35 PM, Paul Rosenzweig wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Arun<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Don’t
let them change your mind. Though the GAC members may
assert othewrisie, your summary is accurate. The GAC has
reached consensus that it should retain the unilateral
ability to change its own definition of consensus while at
the same time agreeing that the Board should continue to
give the GAC’s consensus advice the same value it currently
attributes to consensus advice. This is not “accepting”
Stress Test 18 it is deliberately avoiding the hard choice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
issue remains – will GAC advice continue to require Board
negotiation, a privilege given to no other advisory
committee? If it will then will the GAC agree that it
cannot unilaterally change the definition of consensus? I
see nothing in the communique that resolves that – nor any
recognition by the GAC that all of the other commenters in
the public comment process have disagreed with its position
and supported the Bylaw modification that answers ST18.
There is only a recognition of the problem and a continued
promse to “work within CCWG.” All that is well and good –
but it doesn’t change the issue which (save for your
inadvertent misattribution of Denmark’s views) you have
correctly summarized.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Paul
Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweigesq@redbranchconsulting.com"><span
style="color:#0563C1"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a></span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">O:
+1 (202) 547-0660<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">M:
+1 (202) 329-9650<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">VOIP:
+1 (202) 738-1739<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Skype:
paul.rosenzweig1066<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=9"><span
style="color:#0563C1">Link to my PGP Key</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Arun Mohan Sukumar [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:arun.sukumar@orfonline.org">mailto:arun.sukumar@orfonline.org</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 27, 2015 2:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Shatan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"><gregshatanipc@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Accountability Cross Community
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org"><accountability-cross-community@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] On Stress Test 18<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Olga, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is the operative part of the
Dublin communique on ST18. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The GAC considered:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. The need that each and every
Advisory Committee ensures that the advice provided is
clear and reflects the consensus view of the Committee; <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. The need that each and every
Advisory Committee should preserve its own autonomy in its
definition of consensus; <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. The value the Board attributes to
receiving consensus advice;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">.... the GAC agreed to further work on
the issue of Stress Test 18...<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">These 3 options considered by the GAC
are as different as chalk and cheese. What might an
objective analysis of them be? If, as Greg says, the
issue is settled, why didn't the GAC simply accept the
stress test?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have no fight in this either, so I'm
very much looking to hear a more informed take on the
Communique.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Arun<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Head, Cyber Initiative<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Observer Research
Foundation, New Delhi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://amsukumar.tumblr.com/"
target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">http://amsukumar.tumblr.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">+91-9871943272<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:13 PM, Greg
Shatan <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Arun,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">This
is not my fight, but I don't understand your
position. Your reliance on the 3 March 2015 email
is incorrect on its face -- it does not say that
Denmark opposed Stress Test 18. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In
any event you have the email intervention from
Finn Petersen (signed "GAC - Dk") asking you tor
correct it. I don't think you need any further
requests from Denmark to correct your article. It
would be the responsible thing to do.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">If
this remains uncorrected, in combination with the
passage that Olga Cavalli quoted, it gives the
appearance that your article is a stick stirring
the ashes, hoping to rekindle a fire that has gone
out, rather than a serious piece of reporting or
analysis. I hope that you did not intend to be a
pyromaniac -- it would be a waste of your time and
skills, and counterproductive in the larger scheme
of things.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#888888"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#888888">Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#888888"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#888888"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 1:31
PM, Arun Mohan Sukumar <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arun.sukumar@orfonline.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arun.sukumar@orfonline.org">arun.sukumar@orfonline.org</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks Greg - I would
need to link to an e-mail intervention from
DK or GAC meeting transcripts (when Dublin
ones are out) to make this correction.
Saying this post the article's publication
is not quite the same.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Head, Cyber
Initiative<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Observer
Research Foundation, New Delhi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://amsukumar.tumblr.com/"
target="_blank"><span
style="color:#1155CC"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://amsukumar.tumblr.com">http://amsukumar.tumblr.com</a></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B91-9871943272"
target="_blank">+91-9871943272</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Oct 27,
2015 at 10:56 PM, Greg Shatan <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Arun,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
just read the email you
referred to. It does not
support the proposition that
Stress Test 18 is unacceptable
to Denmark, or even that
Denmark has a position on
Stress Test 18. It is a
fairly nuanced and
non-dispositive email,
contributing to the overall
discourse at the time it was
written. Furthermore, it was
written 3 March 2015, which in
"CCWG time" is several
millennia ago -- a further
reason not to rely on it as a
statement of "position" in
late October.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
suggest that you do not need
to wait for further
instructions from Denmark in
order to correct your piece,
especially since Denmark has
already told you in no
uncertain terms that "your
statement concerning Denmark
is wrong!!!!"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
look forward to reading the
revised version of your
article.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Best
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Greg
Shatan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue,
Oct 27, 2015 at 1:15 PM,
Arun Mohan Sukumar <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arun.sukumar@orfonline.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arun.sukumar@orfonline.org">arun.sukumar@orfonline.org</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi
Finn, this is what I
went by: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/wp1/2015-March/000071.html"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/wp1/2015-March/000071.html">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/wp1/2015-March/000071.html</a></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If
the Danish position
has changed, happy to
correct.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br
clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Head,
Cyber
Initiative<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Observer
Research
Foundation,
New Delhi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://amsukumar.tumblr.com/"
target="_blank"><span
style="color:#1155CC"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://amsukumar.tumblr.com">http://amsukumar.tumblr.com</a></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B91-9871943272" target="_blank">+91-9871943272</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Tue, Oct 27,
2015 at 10:32
PM, Finn
Petersen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:FinPet@erst.dk" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:FinPet@erst.dk">FinPet@erst.dk</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Dear
Arun,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Thoughts
- here is one!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">You
write "Several
countries,
notably
Brazil, Spain,
Denmark and
Argentina, see
the proposed
modification
as
unacceptable."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Why
did you
include
Denmark in the
group of
countries that
oppose ST18 -
your statement
concerning
Denmark is
wrong!!!!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Please
correct this.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Finn,
GAC - Dk<br>
<br>
Sendt fra min
iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Den 27. okt.
2015 kl. 17.42
skrev "<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arun.sukumar@orfonline.org" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arun.sukumar@orfonline.org">arun.sukumar@orfonline.org</a></a>"
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arun.sukumar@orfonline.org" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arun.sukumar@orfonline.org">arun.sukumar@orfonline.org</a></a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">CCWGers,
plugging here
a post I wrote
on discussions
around Stress
Test 18. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blogs.cfr.org/cyber/2015/10/27/governments-v-icann-the-last-battle-before-the-iana-transition/"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://blogs.cfr.org/cyber/2015/10/27/governments-v-icann-the-last-battle-before-the-iana-transition/">http://blogs.cfr.org/cyber/2015/10/27/governments-v-icann-the-last-battle-before-the-iana-transition/</a></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Thoughts
welcome!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Arun<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Sent
from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Head,
Cyber
Initiative<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Observer
Research
Foundation,
New Delhi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://amsukumar.tumblr.com/"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://amsukumar.tumblr.com/">http://amsukumar.tumblr.com/</a></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Ph:
+91-<span
style="font-family:uictfonttextstylebody">9871943272</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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