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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/1/15 1:10 PM, Marilyn Cade wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:BAY182-W12C201DB5FD0B6A55CC99AD32D0@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr">I too would like to reinstate the PSO. Its
disappearance
<div>was without real support from the stakeholders and has
limited the </div>
<div>Board's credibility.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Agree, however there is no general discussion, and for something
this loaded I'd expect on the order of a year, the amount of time we
discussed lawful intercept, before the IAB could offer there is
consensus to re-form a protocol supporting organization. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:BAY182-W12C201DB5FD0B6A55CC99AD32D0@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>The seats can be taken from the NomCom seats, which grew</div>
<div>from 5 to 8, without a real understanding of the importance
of</div>
<div>elected/accountable seats, against seats from elsewhere</div>
<div>from the outside spaces around the Stakeholders.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When the PSO was seating members, they were seasoned,</div>
<div>and experienced from the technical community... <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
That is my impression also, and as you observed earlier, they were
not appointed by ICANN's NomCom, which doesn't even disclose who has
offered to be appointed to ICANN's Board and several other appointed
roles, but by the protocol supporting organization, and so more
accountable (since as a minimum, all of those who offer to be
appointed are contributors to the protocol supporting organization).<br>
<br>
Eric<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:BAY182-W12C201DB5FD0B6A55CC99AD32D0@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>we have lost that particular role... <br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Please review
regarding IAB comments on Mission Statement<br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu">lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a><br>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 17:41:38 +0100<br>
CC: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:roelof.meijer@sidn.nl">roelof.meijer@sidn.nl</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lyman@interisle.net">lyman@interisle.net</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:iab@iab.org">iab@iab.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ssac@icann.org">ssac@icann.org</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:marilynscade@hotmail.com">marilynscade@hotmail.com</a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<br>
+1.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I suggest that the solution to this problem is to
re-instate the PSO. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(At the time, the 'disappearance' of PSO was surprising
and was interpreted as a <i>'coup'</i> by the IETF
against other ICT standardisation entities' interests in
the DNS. That was not correct, nor appropriate.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There has to be a global level of "<span
style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12pt;">coordinating
the allocation </span><font face="Calibri"><span
style="font-size:12pt;">and assignment of the DNS
unique identifiers </span><span
style="font-size:16px;">
</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;"> ". Preferably with
accountability to all categories of users. If not
ICANN, then where?</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:12pt;">CW</span></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 01 Nov 2015, at 15:21, Marilyn Cade <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:marilynscade@hotmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:marilynscade@hotmail.com">marilynscade@hotmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<div>
<div><br class="ecxApple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote>
<div class="ecxhmmessage"
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;orphans:2;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;widows:2;word-spacing:0px;">
<div dir="ltr">I prefer that you work with the IAB
for acceptable language.
<div>I was disappointed when some of you and some
on the then board removed the elected
representative from the technical community with
appointments on a rotating basis from entities,
including IETF, ITU, etc, but that did not in my
view replace the vision that we had when we
created ICANN to have elected and thus
acceptable representatives from the technical
community. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Frankly, I prefer to return to elected member
from the technical community, to replace one of
the NomCom appointments, which have no
accountability, and are randomly able to show
any kind of accountability. However, that Board
reform is a different matter from this
discussion. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And, Roelof, while usually, I agree with you,
it is very difficult to change ICANN bylaws. and
a slow process.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I may not have posting privileges, I ask
that if this does not appear on the list, that
someone forward but note that there is no need
that you agree with my views</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marilyn Cade<br>
<br>
<div>> From:<span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Roelof.Meijer@sidn.nl"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Roelof.Meijer@sidn.nl">Roelof.Meijer@sidn.nl</a></a><br>
> To:<span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lyman@interisle.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lyman@interisle.net">lyman@interisle.net</a></a>;<span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a></a><br>
> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 20:37:28 +0000<br>
> CC:<span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:IAB@Iab.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:IAB@Iab.org">IAB@Iab.org</a></a>;<span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ssac@icann.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ssac@icann.org">ssac@icann.org</a></a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Please review
regarding IAB comments on Mission Statement<br>
><span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> Dear all,<br>
><span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> In my opinion, this has nothing to do
with the IANA Stewardship Transition<br>
> nor the enhancement of ICANNıs
accountability.<br>
> We should not deal with this.<br>
> Moreover, the argument that this is (will
become) a fundamental bylaw and<br>
> thus ³difficult to fix later² is
incorrect. If the community feels that<br>
> something should be fixed here, it will
be easier than it is now.<br>
><span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> best,<br>
><span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> Roelof<br>
><span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
><span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
><span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
><span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> On 31-10-15 09:56, "<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a></a><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span>on<br>
> behalf of Lyman Chapin" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a></a><br>
> on behalf of<span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lyman@interisle.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lyman@interisle.net">lyman@interisle.net</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
><span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >Becky and CCWG members -<br>
> ><br>
> >Because the mission statement will be
a fundamental bylaw - and therefore<br>
> >by design extremely difficult to
"fix" later - the concern expressed by<br>
> >the IAB (and echoed by others during
the Dublin meeting) is a lot more<br>
> >important than it might seem; it's
not just a matter of preferring<br>
> >different words to describe roughly
the same thing. ICANN's current<br>
> >mission statement is empirically
incorrect; as a simple matter of fact,<br>
> >ICANN does not ³coordinate, at the
overall level, the global Internetıs<br>
> >system of unique identifiers.² Using
the same empirical standard, the<br>
> >alternatives (to this and other parts
of the mission statement) proposed<br>
> >by the IAB are factually accurate. On
that basis alone it seems obvious<br>
> >that the CCWG should prefer the IAB's
formulation to the one that stands<br>
> >in the current bylaws, or
alternatively should work with the IAB to<br>
> >develop and mutually agree upon more
accurate wording, and we recommend<br>
> >that it do so.<br>
> ><br>
> >- Lyman and Julie<br>
> ><br>
> >On Oct 30, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Burr,
Becky wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> >> CCWG Members <br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> The IAB has raised a significant
concern about the Mission Statement,<br>
> >>which currently describes ICANNıs
role of coordinating the allocation<br>
> >>and assignment of the DNSı unique
identifiers, including Protocol port<br>
> >>and parameter numbers. As some of
you may recall, in early comments<br>
> >>they suggested changing the word
³coordination² to ³support.² WP2<br>
> >>discussed this and declined to
modify the existing language in the<br>
> >>Bylaws, but provided an
opportunity for the ASO, the Root Server<br>
> >>community, and the port/parameter
community to provide their own<br>
> >>description of what policy
³coordination² would mean in each (i.e.,<br>
> >>names, numbers, root servers,
protocol/parameters) context.<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> Andrew Sullivan, Chair of IAB,
has informed me that the IAB remains<br>
> >>very concerned about the Mission
Statement. According to Andrew (on<br>
> >>behalf of the IAB), ³the mission
statement (including the chapeau) is<br>
> >>misleading, has caused us
problems in the past, and has been false at<br>
> >>least since the end of the PSO
[Protocol Supporting Organization] and<br>
> >>arguably before that. In
particular, according to the IAB, ³ICANN does<br>
> >>not "coordinate, at the overall
level, the global Internet's systems of<br>
> >>unique identifiers.²<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> This issue was discussed in the
Public Forum in Dublin, and Steve<br>
> >>Crocker expressed support for
working to align ICANNıs description of<br>
> >>its role in this area more
precisely:<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> ANDREW SULLIVAN: Hi, my name is
Andrew Sullivan. And I'm chair of the<br>
> >>Internet Architecture Board. The
mission of ICANN currently has text<br>
> >>that ICANN -- and I quote -- is
to coordinate at the overall level, the<br>
> >>global Internet systems of unique
identifiers. End quote. That's not<br>
> >>precisely true any more and
hasn't been at least since the protocol<br>
> >>supporting organization
disappeared from ICANN. I'm wondering whether<br>
> >>the Board is open to changing
this part of the mission since it's open<br>
> >>anyway in the CCWG process?<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> STEVE CROCKER: I think I'm the
designated hitter here. Andrew, thank<br>
> >>you very much. There's been a
somewhat uncomfortable disparity between<br>
> >>some of the words that we use to
describe ourselves and some of the<br>
> >>words that our close friends use
to describe us. We have -- and we've --<br>
> >>some of us have been paying
attention for a while. The good news -- I<br>
> >>think it's extremely good news --
is that over the last relatively short<br>
> >>period of time, we have built a
much stronger technical team, step one.<br>
> >>And step 2 is would are we have
actually got them connected to the<br>
> >>communications process. Harder
than I would have liked it to have been.<br>
> >>But it's now there. And it's been
one of these behind the scenes things<br>
> >>of where we've been pressing. So
I think that, going forward, we're<br>
> >>going to try to align our words
in a more careful way. There's always a<br>
> >>lot of equities about how many
words you use to describe yourself which,<br>
> >>you know. But I think some
greater precision and adjustment of the<br>
> >>nuances is well in order.<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> The IAB has provided some
proposed text, which addresses the concerns<br>
> >>of its members. I have attached a
side-by-side comparison of (1) the<br>
> >>Existing Mission Statement; (2)
the current CCWG proposal; and (3) the<br>
> >>IAB proposal. I should note that
the proposed changes appear to be more<br>
> >>dramatic than they actually are.
Most of the changes reflect moving the<br>
> >>language around. The substantive
changes include:<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> Current Bylaws/CCWG Proposal<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> IAB Proposal<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> ICANNıs mission is to
³coordinate, at the overall level, the global<br>
> >>Internetıs system of unique
identifiers²<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> ICANNıs mission is to ³support,
at the overall level, core Internet<br>
> >>registries²<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> ICANN coordinates the allocation
and assignment of ³Domain Names<br>
> >>(forming a system referred to as
³DNS²)<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> ICANN coordinates the allocation
and assignment of ³names in the root<br>
> >>zone of the Domain Name System
(³DNS²)<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> ICANN coordinates the
³allocation and assignment of protocol port
and<br>
> >>parameter numbers²<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> ICANN ³collaborates with other
bodies as appropriate to publish core<br>
> >>registries needed for the
functioning of the Internet.²<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> As indicated above, a more
complete comparison is attached. Given the<br>
> >>strength of the IABıs views on
this point, I thought it was important to<br>
> >>raise this issue for discussion.<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> Becky<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> J. Beckwith Burr<br>
> >> Deputy General Counsel &
Chief Privacy Officer<br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> >> <IAB Proposed Mission
Statement Changes 30<br>
>
>>October.pdf>_______________________________________________<br>
> >> Accountability-Cross-Community
mailing list<br>
> >> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
> >><span
class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></a><br>
> ><br>
>
>_______________________________________________<br>
> >Accountability-Cross-Community
mailing list<br>
> ><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
> ><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
> ><br>
><span class="ecxApple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>
_______________________________________________<br>
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