<p dir="ltr">It seem we are in agreement on what should be in WS1 Greg just that you seem to be better at writing more details than myself. :-)</p>
<p dir="ltr">As to the difficulty of assigning to SO/AC viz the SD, are you saying that "scope of request, purpose of request, scope of response, how inspection will be arranged, confidentiality, privilege, completeness, etc." will not be an issue to consider if under SD OR you are saying that even though we still need to define scope, privilege et all in WS2 inspection rights would be temporarily safe under the SD for the time being since there will be community process required to execute such power.</p>
<p dir="ltr">If for the later then it's well understood but I will like to hear further rationale/explanation if the former is the case (and if none-of the above).</p>
<p dir="ltr">Regards</p>
<p dir="ltr">Sent from my Asus Zenfone2<br>
Kindly excuse brevity and typos.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 3 Nov 2015 07:50, "Greg Shatan" <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I'll restate my position that we should only replicate the rights of the member in the hands of the designator in WS1. We can consider expanding that to SO/ACs in WS2; i think there will be more variable and nuance and we'll need more time to work things through.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Inspection is not so simple as Seun makes it seem. I don't want to overcomplicate it either, but there will be a number of points that will need to be addressed in terms of scope of request, purpose of request, scope of response, how inspection will be arranged, confidentiality, privilege, completeness, etc.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Creating a DIDP appeals process (other than RfR) will also have its issues that need to be worked through. I think this is better left to WS2; i don't think the change from member to designator fundamentally affects this.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I can already see that issues we have on our plate are not getting the attention they need to close them off, and that people are expressing surprise at various aspects of the proposal. I think we need to limit ourselves to the necessities in WS1, and also make darn sure that WS2 is a reality (e.g., by the bylaw that Mathieu points out).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I think one reason you are not seeing more responses to this is that people are maxed out and don't even want to touch another issue -- so silence in this case does not indicate assent, it indicates burnout. Maybe if this were a corporate transaction or a legislative session, that would make this the ideal time to push something through with a minimum of attention given to it. I think that we need to treat our fellow multistakeholders a little better than corporate adversaries or politicians, so I would caution against using 11th hour fatigue as a platform.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Schaefer, Brett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org" target="_blank">Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Jordan,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I feel like we are going around in circles.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We have all agreed that the move from member to designators creates gaps in transparency and accountability that need to be addressed.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Everyone agrees on the right of inspection issue (although some discussion continues on whether that right is only to the sole designator
or also to the individual SOs and ACs). <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">A significant number of participants have expressed the view that additional transparency issues need to be moved up considering
that enforcement under the designator relies predominantly on removing directors.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Others disagree and say that it was agreed months ago that this should be WS2.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The response is that things have changed – the model was membership, it now is designator. That under this new model, it is even
more important that individuals, businesses, and the SOs and ACs have access to information as a counterbalance and that if this had been known from the start that people would have insisted that transparency be WS1.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">There seems to be no real issue with pursuing these matters on substance, just a concern about the timeline.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Steve offered one compromise. I offered another. Both are aimed at limiting the immediate work load to allow them to fit the timeline.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Brett
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:2.25pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Jordan Carter [mailto:<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 02, 2015 4:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Schaefer, Brett<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Burr, Becky; Steve DelBianco; <a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>; Alan Greenberg; <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><span><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Transparency recap (Was: Contribution on Transparency Reforms for CCWG)<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The only thing I would like to add at this point is to query the point about granting such rights to individual SOs and ACs.<u></u><u></u></p><div><div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The rights of a member, which we are analogising, would have given the inspection right to the community mechanism as sole member. The right would not have been able to be delegated to SOs and ACs in a legal sense. It was the abstraction
of that right *away* from individual SOs and ACs, along with other statutory rights, which was part of the shift from multiple members to single members.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It is not clear to me why we should, in WS1, do anything other than replicate what the member right would have been - to grant it to the community as a whole, as would have been the case with membership.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For the rest, it should be WS2....<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">cheers<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jordan<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 3 November 2015 at 10:24, Schaefer, Brett <<a href="mailto:Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org" target="_blank">Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hence, my suggestion to focus on more defined, easily implemented measures in WS1 that would address
the concerns of those calling for more transparency measures in WS1, while leaving the more complicated matters to WS2 with a specific commitment to follow through.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004b8d">Brett</span></b>
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004b8d">Schaefer</span></b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#58595b"><br>
Jay Kingham Senior Research Fellow in International Regulatory Affairs<br>
Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom Davis Institute for National Security and Foreign Policy</span></i><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#58595b">The Heritage Foundation<br>
214 Massachusetts Avenue, NE<br>
Washington, DC 20002<br>
<a href="tel:202-608-6097" value="+12026086097" target="_blank">202-608-6097</a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#004b8d"><a href="http://heritage.org/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#004b8d;text-decoration:none">heritage.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:x-small;color:#004b8d;font-weight:bold">Brett</span><span style="font-size:x-small;color:#004b8d;font-weight:bold"></span>
<span style="font-size:x-small;color:#004b8d;font-weight:bold">Schaefer</span><span style="font-size:x-small;color:#58595b;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic"><br>
Jay Kingham Senior Research Fellow in International Regulatory Affairs</span><span style="font-size:x-small;color:#58595b;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic"></span><span style="font-size:x-small;color:#58595b;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic"><br>
Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom Davis Institute for National Security and Foreign Policy</span><br>
<font color="#58595b" size="2">The Heritage Foundation<br>
214 Massachusetts Avenue, NE<br>
Washington, DC 20002</font><span style="font-size:x-small;color:#58595b"><br>
<a href="tel:202-608-6097" value="+12026086097" target="_blank">202-608-6097</a></span><br>
<font color="#004b8d" size="2"><a style="COLOR:#004b8d;TEXT-DECORATION:none" href="http://heritage.org/" target="_blank">heritage.org</a><br>
<span style="font-size:x-small"></span><span style="font-size:x-small"></span>
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</font>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Burr, Becky [mailto:<a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 02, 2015 4:22 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Schaefer, Brett; Steve DelBianco; <a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">
kdrazek@verisign.com</a>; Alan Greenberg<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Transparency recap (Was: Contribution on Transparency Reforms for CCWG)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Agree, but our time constraints are significant</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">J. Beckwith Burr</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Deputy General Counsel & Chief Privacy Officer</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><Schaefer>, Brett <<a href="mailto:Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org" target="_blank">Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 2, 2015 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Becky Burr <<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>>, Steve DelBianco <<a href="mailto:sdelbianco@netchoice.org" target="_blank">sdelbianco@netchoice.org</a>>, Keith Drazek <<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>>,
Alan Greenberg <<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Accountability Community <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [CCWG-ACCT] Transparency recap (Was: Contribution on Transparency Reforms for CCWG)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Becky,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I am referring to the more recent discussion that arose form the move from membership to designator.
Even so, there is no opposition expressed that I have seen to the pursuit of these goals in principle, just in terms of our time constraints.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Brett
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#004b8d">BrettSchaefer</span></b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#58595b"><br>
Jay Kingham Senior Research Fellow in International Regulatory Affairs<br>
Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom Davis Institute for National Security and Foreign Policy</span></i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#58595b">The Heritage Foundation<br>
214 Massachusetts Avenue, NE<br>
Washington, DC 20002<br>
<a href="tel:202-608-6097" value="+12026086097" target="_blank">202-608-6097</a></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#004b8d"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__heritage.org_&d=CwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=ns0EKaZMgPYtzk_eoqXWtkY71iI_xOFXK_CY5TLfgSY&s=2L5fXhaVij06ISnz3kqV5AkYb_p2E-QIRZmpKMBJVS0&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:#004b8d;text-decoration:none">heritage.org</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Burr,
Becky [<a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 02, 2015 3:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Schaefer, Brett; Steve DelBianco; <a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">
kdrazek@verisign.com</a>; Alan Greenberg<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Transparency recap (Was: Contribution on Transparency Reforms for CCWG)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Review and enhancement of DIDP has been a WS2 item for months.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">J. Beckwith Burr</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Deputy General Counsel & Chief Privacy Officer</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><Schaefer>, Brett <<a href="mailto:Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org" target="_blank">Brett.Schaefer@heritage.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 2, 2015 at 1:06 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Steve DelBianco <<a href="mailto:sdelbianco@netchoice.org" target="_blank">sdelbianco@netchoice.org</a>>, Keith Drazek <<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>>, Alan Greenberg <<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Accountability Community <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Transparency recap (Was: Contribution on Transparency Reforms for CCWG)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">That said, in the general discussion, I haven’t seen any real opposition to the call for: (1) granting
the right of inspection to the SD or to the individual SOs/ACs; (2) improving the DIDP process; and (3) requiring ICANN to disclose its contacts with government to influence policy and the expenditures for that purpose.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jordan Carter<br>
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Chief Executive <br>
<b>InternetNZ</b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<a href="tel:%2B64-4-495-2118" value="+6444952118" target="_blank">+64-4-495-2118</a> (office) | <a href="tel:%2B64-21-442-649" value="+6421442649" target="_blank">+64-21-442-649</a> (mob)<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</span></a> <br>
Skype: jordancarter<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Web: <a href="http://www.internetnz.nz" target="_blank">www.internetnz.nz</a> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<i>A better world through a better Internet </i><u></u><u></u></p>
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