<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Good evening:<div><br></div><div>I have recently read two apparently related documents:</div><div><br></div><div>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>summary of the work and Recommendations of the CCWG … </div><div><br></div><div>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>A formal update on the CCWG … during and after ICANN 54 … </div><div><br></div><div>Could someone please explain which text is authoritative. Do I need to comment on mistakes in the 'summary' which are not in the 'formal update' - ?</div><div><br></div><div>More generally, may I note that 30+ pages is already quite a stretch for most people. If the forthcoming November 30 document promises to be even longer, then we have a problem.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div><br></div><div>CW</div><div><br></div><div>PS:<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Thankyou - someone - for drawing our attention to the existence of one Justin Bieber, of whom I was not previously aware.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I trust that he has been advised as to his critical röle in the matter of the governance of ICANN. ;-)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 13 Nov 2015, at 20:36, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I didn't realize you were such a big Justin Bieber fan. My apologies, then.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Seun Ojedeji <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Well you started the scenario painting in the first place so I had the share of your insult as well. If the same person raise petition through multiple SO/AC and survives the internal processes of those SO/AC to remove their respective individual members then such person deserves the next Ethos award.</p><p dir="ltr">If you think the SO/AC community could be so drunk/distracted by approving/supporting such petition then maybe it's another reason why allowing appointing SO/AC remove her board member is flawed.</p><span class="im HOEnZb"><p dir="ltr">Regards</p><p dir="ltr">Sent from my Asus Zenfone2<br>
Kindly excuse brevity and typos.</p>
</span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_quote">On 13 Nov 2015 19:53, "Greg Shatan" <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Perhaps you want the role to be restricted to leaders of SO/AC so Greg as the president of IPC can be the only one within IPC to raise such petition. Sorry that won't be implementing the concept of MS and I thought you do value that.</span></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">I did not in any way express or imply such an absurd thing, and I'm rather insulted that you would even raise the possibility. Perhaps you will find a way to join the few SO/ACs you haven't yet joined, so that you can raise a petition wherever you feel like it, even if the right is restricted.</div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"> That seems like a much better plan for world domination, with much less work, than chairing a constituency.</div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Seun Ojedeji <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Since you have the understanding below then that is correct and there is noting wrong with that; The petition only becomes recognised as legitimate when the SO/AC owns it.</p><p dir="ltr">I don't see what the issue is in that scenario, an individual (or group of people) raise a need, it goes through the particular SO/AC consideration processes and becomes a formal petition of the concerned SO/AC.</p><p dir="ltr">Perhaps you want the role to be restricted to leaders of SO/AC so Greg as the president of IPC can be the only one within IPC to raise such petition. Sorry that won't be implementing the concept of MS and I thought you do value that.</p><p dir="ltr">Regards<span><br>
Sent from my Asus Zenfone2<br>
Kindly excuse brevity and typos.</span></p><div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 13 Nov 2015 19:25, "Greg Shatan" <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I don't believe Page 18 addresses my concerns. It says:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">The petition can only be started in the SO or AC that nominated the Director.</font><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">It does not limit who can start that petition. As such, Justin Bieber </font><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">could start a petition</span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">(or Seun Ojedeji -- oops I see you are are member of NCSG (along with ALAC and the ASO) so you could start a petition almost anywhere regardless of restrictions) in the GNSO to remove Bruce Tonkin (a GNSO-appointed Director). So, my concern stands.....</span></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">If there's something I'm missing on page 18, please let me know.</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Greg</font></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Seun Ojedeji <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Sent from my Asus Zenfone2<br>
Kindly excuse brevity and typos.<span><br>
On 13 Nov 2015 18:08, "Greg Shatan" <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> A few quick comments, since that's all there's time for under this plan. I was only able to review my prior comments against this draft; no time for a full read.<br>
><br>
> 1. Page 11: Petition Process: Is it clear that any individual, regardless of affiliation can begin a petition in any AC/SO for every power? Even removing that AC/SO's appointed director? For example, can Justin Bieber start a petition in the GNSO to remove Bruce Tonkin? If that is what we agreed to, never mind. It just strikes me as odd, and I haven't seen it expressed this way before. (I think we used the passive voice before, which did not identify the "actor" or any limitation on their identity or affiliation.)<br>
><br></span>
SO: Page 18 addresses your fears.</p><p dir="ltr">Cheers!</p><div><br>
> <br>
><br>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 9:57 AM, Mathieu Weill <<a href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr" target="_blank">mathieu.weill@afnic.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Dear Sabine,<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> I think that this is version issue. The version of the document you are referencing is the incorrect one.<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Indeed, it was part of the transparency issues mentioned in Dublin and, during the CCWG call #65 we specifically discussed the item (see the slides here : <a href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56144581/WP2%20Issues%202%20Nov%202015.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1446529282000&api=v2" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56144581/WP2%20Issues%202%20Nov%202015.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1446529282000&api=v2</a>) and acknowledged that there we had received several requests to address this issue in WS2.<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Thank you for raising this consistency issue.<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Best,<br>
>><br>
>> Mathieu<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> De : <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] De la part de <a href="mailto:Sabine.Meyer@bmwi.bund.de" target="_blank">Sabine.Meyer@bmwi.bund.de</a><br>
>> Envoyé : vendredi 13 novembre 2015 15:01<br>
>> À : <a href="mailto:turcotte.bernard@gmail.com" target="_blank">turcotte.bernard@gmail.com</a><br>
>> Cc : <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
>> Objet : Re: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG - Draft Update document for CCWG call<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Dear Bernard,<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> thank you for updating and re-sending the draft!<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> To my understanding, the list of WS2 items on p 29 does not yet reflect the current status of discussions if indeed the latest version is the following: <a href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/50823981/AJed%2020151026%20Items%20for%20Consideration%20in%20Work%20Stream%202.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1446576372000&api=v2" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/50823981/AJed%2020151026%20Items%20for%20Consideration%20in%20Work%20Stream%202.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1446576372000&api=v2</a><br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> In that case, “ICANN’s interaction with governments” is currently not part of the draft.<br>
>><br>
>> Thank you for considering this.<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Kind regards<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Sabine Meyer<br>
>><br>
>> International Digital and Postal Policy, Internet Governance<br>
>><br>
>> Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy<br>
>><br>
>> Villemombler Strasse 76, 53123 Bonn<br>
>><br>
>> GERMANY<br>
>><br>
>> Phone: <a href="tel:%2B49%20228%2099615-2948" value="+49228996152948" target="_blank">+49 228 99615-2948</a><br>
>><br>
>> Fax: <a href="tel:%2B%2049%20228%2099615-2964" value="+49228996152964" target="_blank">+ 49 228 99615-2964</a><br>
>><br>
>> E-Mail: <a href="mailto:sabine.meyer@bmwi.bund.de" target="_blank">sabine.meyer@bmwi.bund.de</a><br>
>><br>
>> Internet: <a href="http://www.bmwi.de/" target="_blank">http://www.bmwi.de</a><br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Von: <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] Im Auftrag von Bernard Turcotte<br>
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 13. November 2015 00:04<br>
>> An: Accountability Cross Community<br>
>> Betreff: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG - Draft Update document for CCWG call<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> All,<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> As per Mathieu's email of earlier today please find the draft Proposal Update document which will be discussed at the next CCWG meeting.<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> The document is going to professional formatting as we speak - so any issues of layout, fonts etc. will be addressed by a specialist.<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> This document also represents a consideration of all the comments received with respect to the previous version - not that all of these were accepted, but a majority were taken on.<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> We apologize for the lateness of the document, but as you will notice we have put significant efforts into recasting this per the comments.<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Bernard Turcotte<br>
>><br>
>> ICANN Staff Support for the CCWG<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> for the CCWG Co-chairs.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
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