<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><i>I sent an email Saturday in an attempt to move the ball on this provision -- particularly on the provision that Andrew highlights. Since it may have gotten lost in the email blizzard, I am pasting it in here as well. </i></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><i><br></i></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><i>Greg</i></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.8px">This topic was just discussed extensively on the call yesterday and there was considerable progress. The recordings, notes, chat and call transcripts are all available now at <a href="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=56145283" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=56145283</a>. The relevant discussion is on pp. 4-19 of the call transcript. It's important to read the whole section, but the concluding remarks from that discussion are helpful for us to build on:</div><blockquote style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"></div></blockquote><blockquote style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px">Becky Burr: Well, no, I mean, I think that the point is - and Greg has just echoed me in this - what we are talking about is services, not service providers. So the question is what is the underlying service, not what is the nature of the business. So I guess I agree with - I agree with the way it is set up in this language here.<br> <br>Thomas Rickert: Yes, and I guess that what you’ve just refined is a better description of what Greg I think meant by saying differing classes of services - class of businesses. So I guess that’s helpful. So I think we can confirm and please let me know if you do not agree with this, that that we are looking for a technology-neutral description of this.<br> <br> But still if we’re using the technique that Kavouss has suggested, for example, we could have examples of technology to illustrate what we mean by the definition that should then go - or by the language that should then go into the bylaws. Alan, you’ve raised your hand.<br> <br>Alan Greenberg: Yeah, thank you. It [dawns] on me that when we're looking at the two classes of service, someone may be offering a graphics design service over the web. Clearly, we are never saying we are going to be regulating the graphics design service. So at some level we could not - we don’t have to differentiate because we’re - the higher level service is always carved out. But since the word has two different very distinct meanings it’s probably better to be clear. Thank you.<br> <br><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Thomas Rickert:</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Thanks very much, Alan. And I think that these are excellent final words on this conversation. So I think this is as far as we can get during this call. And with that I’d like to thank you all for your contributions and for bearing with us for those who are not calling this their favorite item. And let’s now move to the next agenda item which is going to be chaired by Mathieu.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div></blockquote><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">Andrew Sullivan had two suggested revisions to the first part of the provision</div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">, both of which are consistent with this direction:</div></span></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><ul><li style="margin-left:15px"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><b><font color="#0000ff"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="im"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">ICANN</div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> shall not impose regulations on </div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"></div></span><span class="im">services (i.e., any software process that accepts<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> </div></span></font></font></b></span><b><font color="#0000ff" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.8px">connections from the Internet) that use the Internet’s unique<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> </div></span><span style="font-size:12.8px"><font color="#0000ff">identifiers, or<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> the content that such services carry or provide</div></font></span></font></b><br></li></ul></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.8px"></span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font color="#000000">or, alternatively</font></span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><ul><li style="margin-left:15px"><b><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><font color="#0000ff"><span class="im"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><b style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font color="#0000ff"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">ICANN</div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> shall not impose regulations on </div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"></div></font></font></b></div></span>services (i.e., any software process that accepts datagrams from </font></span><font color="#0000ff"><span style="font-size:12.8px">the Internet, when those datagrams are not themselves necessarily </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">the consequence of a datagram previously sent by the software </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">process itself) that use the Internet’s unique identifiers</span><span style="font-size:12.8px">, or</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.8px;display:inline"> the content that such services carry or provide</div></font></font></b><br></li></ul></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"></div></span><font face="verdana, sans-serif">These parentheticals are both more "technically neutral" than the parenthetical I circulated ("(i.e., the software processes by which commands received via the Internet are processed and a response is generated and transmitted via the Internet, to be viewed in a web browser, email client, or the like")). I tend to prefer the first one, which has the virtue of brevity. That said, we should see if there are tweaks consistent with Thomas's summary of the call "</font>we’re not talking about the service providers or the class of business that they're in but that we're talking about the technical processes, the technical services.<span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">"</span></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Another suggestion came from Milton Mueller:</div><div class="gmail_default"><ul><li style="margin-left:15px"><b style="color:rgb(0,0,255);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="im"><b style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font color="#0000ff"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">ICANN</div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> shall not impose regulations on </div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"></div></font></font></b></span><span class="im">Information services which use the Internet’s unique identifiers but are not registries or registrars, or<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> </div></span><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">t</div><span class="im">he content that such services carry or provide</span></b><br></li></ul></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In response to James Bladel, Milton suggests "<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px">Instead of saying “registries or registrars” we could simply say “under the Registrar Accreditation Agreement (RAA) or the Registry Agreement (RA).”</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_default"><ul><li style="margin-left:15px"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><b><font color="#0000ff"><span class="im"><b style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font color="#0000ff"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">ICANN</div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> shall not impose regulations on </div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"></div></font></font></b></span>Information services which use the Internet’s unique identifiers but are not under</font><font color="#0000ff"> the Registrar Accreditation Agreement (RAA) or the Registry Agreement (RA)</font><font color="#0000ff">, or</font><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);display:inline"> </div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);display:inline">t</div><span class="im"><font color="#0000ff">he content that such services carry or provide</font></span></b></font><br></li></ul></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Although "information services" could be preferable to "services," the first suggestion clearly takes us away from describing "technical processes" and instead describes "service providers" since it refers to "registries or registrars" as the kind of thing that would be included as "information services" (unless carved out). The second suggestion is not as clearly about "service providers" but it's also not clearly about "technical services" either (there's not enough information to read it clearly). </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Perhaps there's a way to combine these various thoughts in a manner consistent with the overall direction, for instance in the following synthesis:</div><div class="gmail_default"><ul><span class="im"><li style="margin-left:15px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"></font><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><b><b style="font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">ICANN</div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> shall not impose regulations on:</div></b></b></font></li></span><ul><li style="margin-left:15px"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><b><b style="font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"></div></b>Information services <span style="font-weight:normal;font-size:12.8px"><b>(i.e., any software process that accepts<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> </div></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.8px">connections from the Internet) that</span></b> use the Internet’s unique identifiers, other than those covered by the Registrar Accreditation Agreement (RAA) or </b></font><b style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">the Registry Agreement (RA), or<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> </div></b></li><li style="margin-left:15px"><b style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">t</div>he content that such information services carry or provide</b><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span></li></ul></ul></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">or, alternatively (if the carve-out for the RAA/RA seems confusing, unnecessary or overbroad) </div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><ul><span class="im"><li style="margin-left:15px"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"></font><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><b><b style="font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">ICANN</div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> shall not impose regulations on:</div></b></b></font></li></span><ul><li style="margin-left:15px"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><b><b style="font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"></div></b>Information services <span style="font-weight:normal;font-size:12.8px"><b>(i.e., any software process that accepts<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> </div></b></span><b><span style="font-size:12.8px">connections from the Internet) that</span></b> use the Internet’s unique identifiers, </b></font><b style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> or<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> </div></b></li><li style="margin-left:15px"><b style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">t</div>he content that such information services carry or provide</b><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span></li></ul></ul></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">In order to focus this email, I haven't touched on the second sentence, which we should finalize as well.</div></span></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"><br></div></span></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">I look forward to your thoughts.</div></span></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"><br></div></span></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">Greg</div></span></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Andrew Sullivan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:15:31PM +0000, Burr, Becky wrote:<br>
> I am recirculating the slide that compares the 2nd Draft Report language with alternative language discussed on our last call. Although some who participated in the discussion found the definition of services to be a bit clunky, folks generally felt that this language could work as direction to drafters. We need to reach closure on this issue.<br>
><br>
<br>
</span>With my usual disclaimer in place, I really strongly advise against<br>
the "to be viewed" &c. language. I sent an alternative and I think<br>
there were some other suggestions as well. They're all much more<br>
neutral with respect to technology.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
A<br>
--<br>
Andrew Sullivan<br>
<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><br>
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