<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Milton,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I respectfully disagree. First, these are not "technical issues of minimal relevance." These are fundamental issues that go to clarifying the meaning and focus of this provision, which hinges on clarifying the meaning of "services" and "use". We can't define a technical process such as a "web service" without some technical references. But that doesn't make this a "technical issue."</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">You are failing to focus on this on the technical layer; instead you keep trying to look at it on an economic layer. Given your background that's not surprising, but it doesn't take us in the right direction. As a result of your focusing on the wrong layer, you keep seeing "service providers" when you read "services," rather than seeing "web services" and similar technical processes occurring at the software-server level. You need to zoom in.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I am confident this view is consistent with the comments made by Andrew Sullivan and Malcolm Hutty, among others, and we need to keep going in this direction to finalize this provision</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Mueller, Milton L <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu" target="_blank">milton@gatech.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Greg,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">With all due respect, you are “hung up” on technical issues that are of minimal relevance.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Answers to some of your questions below should make this clear:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="15116b7df442e851_15116393a4f29e24__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></a></p>
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<div><span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">We have been referring to "services that use the Internet's unique identifiers." What kind of "services" actually "use" the Internet's unique identifiers? <span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">MM: All of them. You can’t run a service on the internet of any sort without using IP addresses. Nearly all also use domain names.</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">GS: Again, you are looking at "service businesses," one among many types of Internet users. There's no reason this would be limited to service businesses and not include other businesses or other users of the Internet; it's just not a rational distinction. So the idea that we are talking about businesses that "run a service on the Internet" just doesn't hold water. Further, the business itself doesn't "use" an IP address; the business as such is barely aware that there is an IP address. The IP address is used by the servers and other things attached to the Internet in order to be located on the Internet. Those "things" could be owned by a business (whether product or service based), an individual, a government, etc. </div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">
<u></u><u></u></span></p><span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Service <i>businesses</i> don't really "use" the Internet's unique identifiers.
<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">MM: Yes, they do. I would guess that your problem here lies in the definition of “use” not “service.”</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">GS: It's both.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">
<u></u><u></u></span></p><span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Sure, they may own domain names and they may type in domain names when they use email clients or web browsers -- but so do product-based businesses, end users, IGOs, sovereigns, etc., so a
reference to services in particular and not to every other kind of user makes no sense.<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">MM: If I type in the domain for <a href="http://cnn.com" target="_blank">cnn.com</a> I am “using” CNN’s service, and the distinction between a user and a provider is pretty clear. Because of your limited
understanding of the tech I think you’ve completely lost sight of the purpose of this discussion. To repeat, it is to proscribe ICANN from regulating things that are outside its remit (content and services other than registries and registrars).</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">GS: Milton, Are you now a service? If we are talking about your example, when you type in <a href="http://cnn.com" target="_blank">cnn.com</a>, your browser sends commands to the software on the server located using that domain name; that software than performs a "service" by assembling a result and sending it back to you, using the IP address associated with your computer (not with you), so that you see a "web page" on <a href="http://cnn.com">cnn.com</a>. So, Milton Mueller may be looking at <a href="http://cnn.com">cnn.com</a>, but the <i>service</i> in this equation is the software process, and the <i>use </i>of the Internet's unique identifiers is the addressing that allows the browser on your computer to reach <a href="http://cnn.com">cnn.com</a> and vice versa. </div></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I've never claimed to have "unlimited understanding" of the underlying technology, but I think I have a more than adequate grasp of it all. This part of the provision is important to its understanding; it can't be "read away," as the NRA would like to do with the militia clause of the Second Amendment. It's all part of the overall meaning of the provision. I'm not going to impugn your "understanding of the tech," but I think that if you think about what actually takes place as Internet provides "information services" we'll be getting somewhere.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I refrain from responding to the rest of your message because it is more manifestations of confusion rather than anything that gets us anywhere.</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">I contend that it is perfectly clear, and it is really the crux of my communication. Your attempt to evade it by dismissing it as "manifestations of confusion"</div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">gives me additional evidence that it is logical and on the right track. </div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Greg </div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">
<span><font color="#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></span></p><span><font color="#888888">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">--MM<u></u><u></u></span></p></font></span><div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> Yet "services that use the Internet's unique identifiers" was chosen on purpose rather than some completely different expression. It's become increasingly clear to me that what this refers
to is a service such as a web service, mail service, etc., that runs on a web server, mail server, etc., and the "use" of the Internet's unique identifiers that's referred to is the actual technical process that occurs when that software is "found" or communicates
using the DNS. Other language bears this out -- a service <i>business</i> doesn't really "carry" content, but a web service or a mail service clearly does (think of "carry" as a variant of "carriage" or "carrier"). This understanding of "use" is also demonstrated
by the Malcolm Hutty proposal on November 6, which referred to use of the Internet's unique identifiers by services "<span style="color:black">to enable or facilitate their <span style="background:white">reachability </span>over the Internet.</span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Avenir Book";color:#3366ff">"
</span><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">It's the software-service that needs to be "reached" using the DNS, not a person or a business that is being "reached."</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div><div><div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">So, I actually contend that we are on the right track here, and not "hung up." As my re-posted email indicates, Andrew Sullivan had a couple of constructions for the parenthetical that advanced
discussions beyond my own attempt (and which are in my re-posted email), and which are more "technology neutral." Of course, there's a certain challenge to describing a technological process in a way that is "technology neutral" -- but since ICANN is an entity
that carries out a technical mission, it's a challenge that has been met many times before and I'm confident it will be met again here. We're already closer than we were just a few days ago.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Mueller, Milton L <<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu" target="_blank">milton@gatech.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Becky and Greg:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I am sorry I was not able to be on this call but it occurred in the middle of the IGF.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The problem with the conversation in the transcript below is that it is still hung up on some kind
of technical definition of ‘service,” when all you need to do is come up with a way of differentiating registry and registrar service (which ICANN can legitimately regulate) from ALL other services (which it should not regulate. So again, I ask, what is wrong
with this?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">ICANN shall act strictly in accordance with, and only as reasonably appropriate to</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">,</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
achieve its Mission. Without limiting the foregoing:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">ICANN shall not impose regulations on:</span>
<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
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<ul type="circle">
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Information
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">services which use the Internet’s unique identifiers</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> but are not registries or registrars</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">,
or</span><u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">T</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">he content that such services carry or provide</span><u></u><u></u></li></ul>
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<li class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">ICANN shall have the ability to enter into and enforce agreements with contracted parties,
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">insofar as those agreements are consistent with
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">its Mission. </span><u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shatan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 16, 2015 5:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Andrew Sullivan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] SIDE BY SIDE on Regulation/Contract language</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I sent an email Saturday in an attempt to move the ball on this provision -- particularly on the provision that Andrew highlights.
Since it may have gotten lost in the email blizzard, I am pasting it in here as well. </span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Greg</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">This topic was just discussed extensively on the call yesterday and there was considerable progress. The recordings,
notes, chat and call transcripts are all available now at <a href="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=56145283" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=56145283</a>. The relevant discussion is on pp.
4-19 of the call transcript. It's important to read the whole section, but the concluding remarks from that discussion are helpful for us to build on:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Becky Burr: Well, no, I mean, I think that the point is - and Greg has just echoed me in this - what we
are talking about is services, not service providers. So the question is what is the underlying service, not what is the nature of the business. So I guess I agree with - I agree with the way it is set up in this language here.<br>
<br>
Thomas Rickert: Yes, and I guess that what you’ve just refined is a better description of what Greg I think meant by saying differing classes of services - class of businesses. So I guess that’s helpful. So I think we can confirm and please let me know
if you do not agree with this, that that we are looking for a technology-neutral description of this.<br>
<br>
But still if we’re using the technique that Kavouss has suggested, for example, we could have examples of technology to illustrate what we mean by the definition that should then go - or by the language that should then go into
the bylaws. Alan, you’ve raised your hand.<br>
<br>
Alan Greenberg: Yeah, thank you. It [dawns] on me that when we're looking at the two classes of service, someone may be offering a graphics design service over the web. Clearly, we are never saying we are going to be regulating the graphics design service.
So at some level we could not - we don’t have to differentiate because we’re - the higher level service is always carved out. But since the word has two different very distinct meanings it’s probably better to be clear. Thank you.<br>
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thomas Rickert: Thanks very much, Alan. And I think that these are excellent final words on this conversation.
So I think this is as far as we can get during this call. And with that I’d like to thank you all for your contributions and for bearing with us for those who are not calling this their favorite item. And let’s now move to the next agenda item which is going
to be chaired by Mathieu.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Andrew Sullivan had two suggested revisions to
the first part of the provision</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">, both of which are consistent with this direction:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:blue">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:blue">
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">ICANN</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> shall not impose regulations on </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">services (i.e., any software process that accepts</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">connections from the Internet) that use the Internet’s unique</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">identifiers, or</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> the content that such services carry or provide</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#500050"></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">or, alternatively</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:blue">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:blue">
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">ICANN</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> shall not impose regulations on </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">services (i.e., any software process that accepts datagrams from the Internet, when those datagrams are not themselves necessarily the consequence of a datagram previously sent by the
software process itself) that use the Internet’s unique identifiers, or</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> the content that such services carry or provide</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">These parentheticals are both more "technically
neutral" than the parenthetical I circulated ("(i.e., the software processes by which commands received via the Internet are processed and a response is generated and transmitted via the Internet, to be viewed in a web browser, email client, or the like")).
I tend to prefer the first one, which has the virtue of brevity. That said, we should see if there are tweaks consistent with Thomas's summary of the call "</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">we’re not talking about the service
providers or the class of business that they're in but that we're talking about the technical processes, the technical services.</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">"</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Another suggestion came from Milton Mueller:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:blue">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:blue">
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">ICANN</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> shall not impose regulations on </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">Information services which use the Internet’s unique identifiers but are not registries or registrars, or</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">t</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">he content that such services carry or provide</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In response to James Bladel, Milton suggests
"</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Instead of saying “registries or registrars” we could simply say “under the Registrar Accreditation Agreement (RAA) or the Registry Agreement (RA).”</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:blue">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:blue">
</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">ICANN</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> shall not impose regulations on </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">Information services which use the Internet’s unique identifiers but are not under the Registrar Accreditation Agreement (RAA) or the Registry Agreement (RA), or</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">t</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">he content that such services carry or provide</span></b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Although "information services" could be preferable
to "services," the first suggestion clearly takes us away from describing "technical processes" and instead describes "service providers" since it refers to "registries or registrars" as the kind of thing that would be included as "information services" (unless
carved out). The second suggestion is not as clearly about "service providers" but it's also not clearly about "technical services" either (there's not enough information to read it clearly). </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Perhaps there's a way to combine these various thoughts in a manner consistent with the overall direction, for instance
in the following synthesis:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#0b5394">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#0b5394">
</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">ICANN</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"> shall not impose regulations on:</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0b5394">o</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#0b5394">
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Information services (i.e., any software process that accepts</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">connections from the Internet) that use the Internet’s unique identifiers, other than those covered by the Registrar Accreditation Agreement (RAA) or the Registry Agreement (RA), or</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0b5394">o</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#0b5394">
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">t</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">he content that such information services carry or provide</span></b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">or, alternatively (if the carve-out for the RAA/RA
seems confusing, unnecessary or overbroad) </span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#0b5394">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#0b5394">
</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">ICANN</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:47.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"> shall not impose regulations on:</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0b5394">o</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#0b5394">
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Information services (i.e., any software process that accepts</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">connections from the Internet) that use the Internet’s unique identifiers, or</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0b5394">o</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#0b5394">
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">t</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:83.25pt">
<b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394">he content that such information services carry or provide</span></b><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0b5394"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In order to focus this email, I haven't touched
on the second sentence, which we should finalize as well.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I look forward to your thoughts.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Greg</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Andrew Sullivan <<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:15:31PM +0000, Burr, Becky wrote:<br>
> I am recirculating the slide that compares the 2nd Draft Report language with alternative language discussed on our last call. Although some who participated in the discussion found the definition of services to be a bit clunky, folks generally felt that
this language could work as direction to drafters. We need to reach closure on this issue.<br>
><br>
<br>
With my usual disclaimer in place, I really strongly advise against<br>
the "to be viewed" &c. language. I sent an alternative and I think<br>
there were some other suggestions as well. They're all much more<br>
neutral with respect to technology.<br>
<span style="color:#888888"><br>
A<br>
--<br>
Andrew Sullivan<br>
<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>