<html>
<body>
At 10:42 AM 11/23/2015, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Clearly, this shows that this is
an attempt to rewrite ICANN's mission, rather than an attempt to avoid
mission creep.<br>
Just like 3.7.7.9 has been with us since the beginning of (ICANN) time,
the policy disputes that underlie this attempt have been with us since
the beginning of (ICANN) time.<br>
The Accountability effort is an inappropriate place to try and score
points in these disputes. Â <br>
It's both good and unfortunate that this is becoming clear -- good that
it is becoming clear, unfortunate because of the
timing.</blockquote><br>
I (strongly) disagree. I think that it's quite critical that we try
to articulate why things like 3.7.7.9 are IN SCOPE, so that we allow
ICANN to continue to do those things BUT ONLY those things.<br><br>
3.7.7.9 concerns the registration and use of names. <br><br>
"neither the registration of the Registered Name nor the manner in
which IT is directly or indirectly used infringes the legal rights of any
third party ..."<br><br>
The "it" is important. When I registered davidpost.com, I
did NOT make a promise to the registry, at ICANN's behest, that I would
not do anything at the website I operate at that address that
"infringes the legal rights of any third party." I
might defraud buyers, or defame my political opponents, or infringe
someone's copyright - none of which is of ICANN's concern.
<br><br>
What I did promise was that my use of the davidpost.com name would not
infringe the rights of any third party - that the name
"davidpost.com," for instance, does not infringe someone's
trademark or copyright rights. <br><br>
This is precisely the line we're trying to preserve. ICANN CAN
regulate the names (i.e. what strings can be used as names, who gets
which names) - of course, only with policies "developed through a
bottom-up, consensus-based multi-stakeholder process" - but
NOT what people do with the names. <br><br>
David<br><br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Greg<br><br>
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Burr, Becky
<<a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a>
> wrote:
<dl>
<dd>Are we seriously arguing that RAA 3.7.7.9 is outside the picket
fence? Â <br>
<dd>Section 3.7.7.9 of the RAA has been in place from the beginning of
time. Here is the language from the 2001 RAA:<br><br>
<dl>
<dd>3.7.7.9 The Registered Name Holder shall represent that, to the best
of the Registered Name Holder's knowledge and belief, neither the
registration of the Registered Name nor the manner in which it is
directly or indirectly used infringes the legal rights of any third
party.<br><br>
</dl>
<dd>Here it is in the <font color="#FF0000">1999 RAA</font>:<br><br>
<dl>
<dd>7. g. The SLD holder shall represent that, to the best of the SLD
holder's knowledge and belief, neither the registration of the SLD name
nor the manner in which it is directly or indirectly used infringes the
legal rights of a third party.<br>
<br><br>
</dl>
<dd><font face="Calibri">As someone who was part of the team drafting and
negotiating the 1999 RAA, I can assure you that the inclusion of this
requirement in the RAA was intended to be within the scope of ICANN’s
Mission.</font><br>
<dd>J. Beckwith Burr
<dd>Neustar, Inc. / Deputy General Counsel & Chief Privacy Officer
<dd>1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington D.C. 20006
<dd>Office: <a href="tel:%2B1.202.533.2932">+1.202.533.2932</a>Â
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367">+1.202.352.6367</a> /
<a href="http://www.neustar.biz">neustar.biz</a><br>
<dd>From: Alan Greenberg
<<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>
>
<dd>Date: Sunday, November 22, 2015 at 10:06 PM
<dd>To: "Silver, Bradley"
<<a href="mailto:Bradley.Silver@timewarner.com">
Bradley.Silver@timewarner.com</a>>, Greg Shatan
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>
>, "Mueller, Milton L"
<<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu">milton@gatech.edu</a>>
<dd>Cc: Accountability Community
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<dd>Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Board comments on the Mission statement<br>
<dd>I rarely fill people's mailboxes just to do this, but in this
case;<br>
<dd>+1<br>
<dd>Alan<br>
<br>
<dd>At 22/11/2015 08:31 PM, Silver, Bradley wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">
<dd>I want to echo and support Gregâ€ââ„¢s response below.Â
Milton̢۪s position thathat an existing provision of the RAA is out of
the scope of ICANN’s mission is illuminating. I had been
operating on the (hhopeful) presumption that what we were attempting to
do was find a way to describe ICANN̢۪s mission in a manner that
reflects its current activitieties, and avoid drafting anything that
could adversely impact its continued ability to do so while clearly
preventing any undue expansion.  If those who support the
language in the second sentence are seeking a way to attack the validity
or enforceability of existing contractual provisions, then the concerns
of the board are not only well founded, they are grossly
understated.Â
<dd>Â
<dd>From:
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of
Greg Shatan
<dd>Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 3:01 AM
<dd>To: Mueller, Milton L
<dd>Cc: Accountability Cross Community
<dd>Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Board comments on the Mission statement
<dd>Â
<dd>Milton,
<dd>Â
<dd>I strongly disagree that 3.7.7 is out of scope of ICANN's
mission. I also don't think it's useless, nor is it an uncommon
provision in many terms of service and similar agreements. 3.7.7
only asks for the registrant's "knowledge and belief" -- so
they are not required to know whether they are infringing anywhere under
any jurisdiction. They are only required to make reference to what
they already know -- an entirely reasonable and ordinary requirement.
<dd>Â
<dd>Is it your intent that the new provision we are discussing places
3.7.7 out of scope, and thus serves as a basis for an IRP or other
challenge seeking to nullify 3.7.7? Since 3.7.7 is only an
"example," what other sections are you trying to place out of
scope?
<dd>Â
<dd>Thanks.
<dd>Â
<dd>Greg
<dd>Â
<dd>On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Mueller, Milton L
<<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu">milton@gatech.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<dd>> -----Original Message-----
<dd>>
<dd>> See section 3.7.7 of the registrar accreditation agreement
(RAA):
<dd>>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_resources_pages_approved-2Dwith-2Dspecs-2D2013-2D09-2D17-2Den&d=CwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=11R4XkcvGwOIsQkhhyE47Z7B829g9E2Cip1amJSBQu0&s=5ThaiusaRSYwZuxG3vlUf8hTsMh251yjw_-T7i4DOFg&e=">
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/approved-with-specs-2013-09-17-en</a>
<dd>>
<dd>> 3.7.7.9 The Registered Name Holder shall represent that, to the
best of the
<dd>> Registered Name Holder's knowledge and belief, neither the
registration of
<dd>> the Registered Name nor the manner in which it is directly or
indirectly used
<dd>> infringes the legal rights of any third party.<br>
<dd>Bruce: this is a good example of how the RAA is currently out of
scope. To begin with, it is a completely useless element of the RAA. This
statement does not stop anyone from doing anything, and it does not
require ICANN to determine whether a registrant is infringing someone's
rights. And how is anyone supposed to know whether the way they use a
domain infringes the legal rights of a third party - anywhere in the
world, under any jurisdiction? They cannot know this until
and unless someone asserts those rights against them in a legal
system which has jurisdiction and can make a legal determination. Or do
we want ICANN to be making this determination? Most would agree that we
do not. So what is the purpose, other than to invite ICANN to impose
controls or regulations on virtually anything that happens on the
internet?<br><br>
<dd>_______________________________________________
<dd>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
<dd><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">
Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a>
<dd>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" eudora="autourl">
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a>
<dd>Â <br>
<dd>=================================================================
<dd>Reminder: Any email that requests your login credentials or that asks
you to click on a link could be a phishing attack. If you have any
questions regarding the authenticity of this email or its sender, please
contact the IT Service Desk at
<a href="tel:212.484.6000">212.484.6000</a> or via email at
<a href="mailto:ITServices@timewarner.com">ITServices@timewarner.com</a>
<br>
<br>
<dd>=================================================================<br>
<dd>=================================================================
<dd>This message is the property of Time Warner Inc. and is intended only
for the use of the
<dd>addressee(s) and may be legally privileged and/or confidential. If
the reader of this message
<dd>is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
to deliver it to the intended
<dd>recipient, he or she is hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution, printing, forwarding,
<dd>or any method of copying of this information, and/or the taking of
any action in reliance on
<dd>the information herein is strictly prohibited except by the intended
recipient or those to whom
<dd>he or she intentionally distributes this message. If you have
received this communication in
<dd>error, please immediately notify the sender, and delete the original
message and any copies
<dd>from your computer or storage system. Thank you.
<dd>=================================================================
<dd>_______________________________________________
<dd>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
<dd><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">
Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a>
<dd>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" eudora="autourl">
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a>
</blockquote>
</dl><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" eudora="autourl">
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a>
</blockquote><br>
*******************************<br>
David G Post - Senior Fellow, Open Technology Institute/New America
Foundation<br>
blog (Volokh Conspiracy)
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/david-post" eudora="autourl">
http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/david-post<br>
</a>book (Jefferson's Moose)
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/c327w2n%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0" eudora="autourl">
http://tinyurl.com/c327w2n </a> <br>
music
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/davidpostmusic" eudora="autourl">
http://tinyurl.com/davidpostmusic</a> publications etc.
<a href="http://www.davidpost.com /" eudora="autourl">
http://www.davidpost.com </a>
<br>
******************************* </body>
</html>