<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear All,</div><div>Whether some of us likes or dislike, according to CCWG Charter, we must seek advice from chartering organizations.</div><div>The only thing is the modality to get those advice from right source and in time.</div><div>Regards</div><div>Kavouss </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-12-03 5:20 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Zuck <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:JZuck@actonline.org" target="_blank">JZuck@actonline.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">It is simply the case that at SOME point this is supposed to go to the chartering orgs as they are the ultimate decision makers. The HUGE majority of public comments
come from WITHIN this community. Either we are able to operate as a community or we are not. Continuously throwing the same arguments over the transom because we feel like we get a better platform than we do working within the community has stopped entirely
from being productive. I’m having the same argument inside the IPC, by the way. The primary use of public comments should be to generate new ideas not create ONE MORE round of repetitive comments that require the attention of the CCWG (for responding to which
you go on to criticize the CCWG, of course, if they aren’t comments YOU feel are important). At this point, additional public comments from within the community only serve to make people feel more important than they are within that community. Now is the time
to lobby within the GNSO to see changes you still want made and to compromise if you fail. Anything else is simply intellectual…er, gymnastics… and to defend it in the name of process is disingenuous at best.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Frankly, I’d like to see these measures actually go into effect. I’d like to stop the incredible mission creep we’re getting at the end of this process because
folks feel like they have leverage. If everyone is so concerned that WS2 isn’t going to happen then we have simply failed at WS1 as that was the whole point: to put the community in charge of their own destiny in terms of reform…not to get every pet issue
handled in WS1. And yes, the timeline probably DOES matter politically in the US. We can’t let this go on forever. There isn’t going to be a version of this with which everyone is completely happy so at some point, we need to go to the chartering orgs and
see if they can live with it. There really shouldn’t be ANY public comment at this point but process demands we leave a window open for those who are unrepresented. I don’t need to read another public comment from within the community and do a whole new spreadsheet
treating it on equal footing with the GNSO. It ain’t.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">So, to be specific I think there’s a danger of letting this drag on much longer in terms of the politics in DC. I also see very little upside to holding an entire
public comment period prior to getting feedback from the chartering orgs. As such it’s hard to compare the pros and cons here but we have heard from he public and a fairly significant way and gone a long way to address the concerns that have been raised. It
ain’t perfect and it’s not going to be. That said, if we’ve done our job right, we have the ability to continue to reform the organization regardless of the makeup of the board and the responsibility will fall on the community to do so.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">J</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mueller, Milton L<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 2, 2015 7:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Steve DelBianco <<a href="mailto:sdelbianco@netchoice.org" target="_blank">sdelbianco@netchoice.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a></span><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Issues with Providing Public Comments on CCWG-Accountability Proposal<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Steve:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Your arguments make no sense. You say because we _<i>can</i>_ voice some views that will, possibly (and possibly not), diffuse into our own chartering org in
a couple of weeks that we therefore _<i>should</i>_ do it this way. In other words, it is clear that your only concern is to compress the timeline. You have not provided a single reason why this needs to be done and what will be gained or lost if we don’t
do it that way. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">I am sick of this kind of argumentation. Attempts to compress the timeline at the expense of the accuracy, thoroughness and legitimacy of the process have been
criticized by virtually everyone except for the handful of people, like you, who are responsible for foisting this procedure on us.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Are you going to change this or do you want me, and about a dozen other people, to start directly attacking the legitimacy of your process?
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">--MM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="15166123ef7b8419__MailEndCompose"></a><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve DelBianco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 2, 2015 2:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Issues with Providing Public Comments on CCWG-Accountability Proposal<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I don’t support Nigel and Milton’s view that we need to finish the public comment before asking chartering orgs about their positions.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">As our CCWG charter requires, we are now asking chartering orgs whether they support CCWG recommendations. Anyone who is part of a chartering org (for example, Milton and I are
part of GNSO), can voice their views and concerns within their chartering org to influence the chartering organization's position. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Any individual, whether or not they are pat of a chartering org, could broadcast their concerns about the CCWG proposal so that could be considered by chartering orgs in their internal
deliberations. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">For all these reasons, let’s continue to focus efforts on understanding concerns and questions raised by our chartering orgs, according to their own internal procedures and timelines.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><</span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>
on behalf of Nigel Roberts <</span><a href="mailto:nigel@channelisles.net" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">nigel@channelisles.net</span></a><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 1:55 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"</span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</span></a><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">" <</span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</span></a><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Issues with Providing Public Comments on CCWG-Accountability Proposal<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I totally agree.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">How can the SOs make any reasonsed decision without having the necessity
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">of taking into account the submitted comments when the comment period
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">has closed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">And I shall say so, in the ccNSO.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On 12/02/2015 06:46 PM, Mueller, Milton L wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We should have a complete and open public comment period, and then allow<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">the chartering orgs to make up their mind. To my mind, that should be<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">sequential rather than simultaneous, otherwise doubts could be raised<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">about whether the public comment is meaningful.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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