<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear All,</div><div>Is the current provision relating to HR in the AoC DORMANT?</div><div>Regards</div><div>Kavouss </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-01-19 10:50 GMT+01:00 Niels ten Oever <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lists@nielstenoever.net" target="_blank">lists@nielstenoever.net</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Greg,<br>
<span><br>
On 01/19/2016 07:11 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
> I'm not sure that all of the 3 alternatives are so "clear cut."<br>
><br>
> Does alternative "a" drop the transitional Bylaw that's in the Third<br>
> Draft Proposal?<br>
<br>
</span>No<br>
<span><br>
> If not, what effect does the transitional bylaw have?<br>
><br>
<br>
</span>It ensures that a framwork of interpretation will be made.<br>
<span><br>
> Alternative "b" seems fairly clear.<br>
><br>
> Alternative "c" seems closest to the Third Draft Proposal, with the<br>
> benefit that it clarifies the effect of the transitional bylaw. (As of<br>
> now, the effect of the transitional bylaw on whether the Human Rights<br>
> bylaw is "open for business" is not as clear as it should be.)<br>
><br>
<br>
</span>Disagree. Option C makes the bylaw dormant which was not the case in the<br>
Third Draft Proposal.<br>
<br>
That was the proposal of (your) minority opinion.<br>
<span><br>
> If alternative "a" clearly means that the Human Rights bylaw is "open<br>
> for business," and that ICANN must abide by the bylaw, and that SO/ACs<br>
> must abide by the bylaw, and that ICANN can be taken to task for failing<br>
> to abide by the bylaw (up to and including an IRP), all without the<br>
> Framework of Interpretation -- then I have some considerable sympathy<br>
> for the concerns raised by Paul and by the Board.<br>
><br>
</span>> If the Bylaw is "open for business," then an /ad hoc/ series of<br>
> discussions about interpretation and therefore an /ad hoc/ set of<br>
<span>> interpretations will develop out of necessity, and in many cases those<br>
> discussions will be held within ICANN the corporation and between ICANN<br>
> the corporation and its counsel. At the same time, there may be efforts<br>
> in various parts of the community (having nothing to do with WS2) to<br>
> react to Board and staff actions or to proactively provide viewpoints to<br>
> the Board and staff. This will just be a free-for-all. By the time the<br>
> formal efforts in WS2 are brought forth, these results will have to<br>
> supplant or compete with or try to somehow harmonize with all of these<br>
</span>> /ad hoc /efforts. What a mess that would be.<br>
<br>
I don't think human rights are that open for interpretation as is<br>
sketched here.<br>
<br>
><br>
> The only way to hold back the /ad hoc/ growth of interpretive bits and<br>
<span>> pieces, is for the Bylaw not to be effective until the Framework of<br>
> Interpretation is in place. Some may argue that this was the intent of<br>
> the transitional bylaw, though perhaps inartfully drafted. Others may<br>
> argue that the transitional bylaw means something different (not quite<br>
> sure what, though).<br>
<br>
</span>Ensuring the development of an FoI in WS2<br>
<span><br>
><br>
> Alternative "c" gives us the powerful symbolism of having the HR Bylaw<br>
> in place, even while the road to effectiveness is still being built. (I<br>
> would argue that this is what we have in the Third Draft Proposal,<br>
> subject to clearing up ambiguities, but others may differ.)<br>
<br>
</span>But no guarantee that the road _will_ actually be built.<br>
<span><br>
><br>
> On the other hand, the WS2 process may give us all a better idea of how<br>
> to craft the Bylaw, which could give us the peculiar result that the HR<br>
> Bylaw could be amended before it is even effective. This seems to argue<br>
> in favor of alternative "b," since there is little point in having an<br>
> "unripe" and dormant Bylaw that is unlikely to be effective "as is."<br>
> That said, alternative "c" does provide the symbolism of an HR bylaw<br>
> and the assurance that the bylaw is "in" (even if not "open for business").<br>
><br>
> I think we need to sharpen these alternatives a bit more; I hope this<br>
> will happen very shortly, so we can set the course from here.<br>
><br>
<br>
</span>Happy to disuss.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Niels<br>
<span><br>
> Greg<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Nigel Roberts <<a href="mailto:nigel@channelisles.net">nigel@channelisles.net</a><br>
</span><span>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:nigel@channelisles.net">nigel@channelisles.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Or to put it another way,<br>
><br>
> to have our minds changed for us.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 18/01/16 10:09, <a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><br>
</span><span>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Dear all<br>
><br>
> I agree. It would be tantamount to forgetting the hard work and long<br>
> discussions had in WP4.<br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> Jorge<br>
><br>
> *Von:*<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>><br>
</span>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
<span>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>>] *Im<br>
> Auftrag<br>
> von * Dr. Tatiana Tropina<br>
> *Gesendet:* Montag, 18. Januar 2016 11:00<br>
> *An:* <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
</span>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<div><div class="h5">> *Betreff:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Recommendation 6 - Human Rights - 1st<br>
> reading<br>
><br>
> conclusions<br>
><br>
> Dear all,<br>
> Sorry I found that I missed an important word in my previous<br>
> email and<br>
> think this can lead to misunderstanding.<br>
> I meant there was "NO real dialogue" on consumer trust outside<br>
> of the<br>
> new gTLD discussions, while HR have been discussed extensively<br>
> at WP4<br>
> and CCWG.<br>
> Thus, we can't compare consumer trust and HR as re what shall be<br>
> moved<br>
> to WS2 completely.<br>
> Best<br>
> Tatiana<br>
><br>
> On 18/01/16 10:45, Dr. Tatiana Tropina wrote:<br>
><br>
> Dear Paul,<br>
> To answer your question<br>
><br>
> On 18/01/16 08:57, Paul Szyndler wrote:<br>
><br>
> Further, what distinguishes the conversation of human rights<br>
> from our recent discussion on consumer trust?<br>
><br>
> The difference is, as it was pointed in the thread on "Christmas<br>
> Trees and Consumer Trust", that human rights have been<br>
> extensively<br>
> discussed during the preparation of the Third Draft Proposal<br>
> at the<br>
> WP4 and CCWG, while there has been a real dialogue on<br>
> consumer trust<br>
> outside of the new gTLD review discussions.<br>
> I think comparing human rights issues and implications to the<br>
> discussion on consumer trust is not feasible - neither in the<br>
> context of this group nor in the broader context. WP4 has<br>
> achieved<br>
> its a compromise and suggested the bylaw language after<br>
> extensive<br>
> discussions, so moving the issue of human rights completely<br>
> to WS2<br>
> is not justified - at least not if one uses comparison with<br>
> consumer<br>
> trust issues for such justification.<br>
> Best regards<br>
> Tatiana<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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</span><span class="im HOEnZb">--<br>
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Head of Digital<br>
<br>
Article 19<br>
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