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I REALLY did not meant to open any wounds or start a long thread. At
yesterday's meeting, I said I would send a message listing the open
issues for the ALAC.<br><br>
One of them was that we noticed that there was a reference to the members
of the UA comprising the Empowered Community being representatives of the
SO/ACs (exactly as we have been saying for ages), but felt that it needed
an additional sentence saying that each would need to be duly selected by
their respective organizations. <br><br>
If the CCWG feels that the elaboration is not needed, fine. But we called
it out because we thought it should be looked at. <br><br>
Period. There was no intent to re-open any issues or rethink how this
overall empowerment was being structured.<br><br>
Alan<br><br>
At 27/01/2016 04:07 PM, Jordan Carter wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I apologise for my
overenthusiastic rush to completely agree with Chris - the part I thought
was completely right is that this issue has been resolved
satisfactorily.<br><br>
Greg, your explanation is as ever lucid, clear, and comprehensive (but
not excessive).<br><br>
:-)<br><br>
Jordan<br><br>
On 28 January 2016 at 10:05, Greg Shatan
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>
> wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>I don't think Chris is quite right, though he's close. We are
not heading back to anything. A basic premise of the Third Draft
Proposal is that there will be a legal entity -- an unincorporated
association that will be the tool by which the community exercises
the Community Powers after</u> a decision is made to do so by the
participating SO/ACs. <br><br>
<dd>But individuals will not themselves provide legal personhood -- that
is accomplished through the unincorporated association (the Empowered
Community/Single Designator Entity (ECSDE) (or GOLEM, if you prefer that
acronym)).<br><br>
<dd>I suppose there is one open question, which is the process by which
the unincorporated association is set up, and whether any legal or
natural persons need to be involved in that. I believe it is clear
that a SO/AC can be a decisional entity without having any legal or
natural persons involved in setting up the unincorporated
association/ECSDE/GOLEM entity.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
<dd>Greg <br>
</font><br>
<dd>On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Jordan Carter
<<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>
> wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>Chris is completely right. The UA doesn't make decisions - it acts
only on the instructions of the SOs and ACs. It has to have one or two
humans (or entities) as members to exist, but they won't have the
decision rights.<br><br>
<dd>I am sure that the lawyers can point to their memos that set this all
out in depth. It was discussed in great detail in the middle of 2015, and
resolved....<br><br>
<br>
<dd>bests<br>
<dd>Jordan<br><br>
<br>
<dd>On 28 January 2016 at 09:25, Chris Disspain
<<a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au">ceo@auda.org.au</a>> wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>Hello All,<br><br>
<dd>I thought the basis of the model was that either each so/ac would
appoint a person to be the legal persons or a small number of nominated
individuals (2 was discussed I think) would provide the required legal
personhood but would not be empowered to do anything without instruction
from the so/acs. We now seem to be heading back to a requirement that
so/acs for lead entities in some way which is challenging for some to say
the least! <br><br>
<dd>Could we please get clarity on where we are at with this?<br><br>
<br>
<dd>Cheers,<br><br>
<br>
<dd>Chris<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">
<dd>On 28 Jan 2016, at 05:16 , Nigel Roberts
<<a href="mailto:nigel@channelisles.net">nigel@channelisles.net</a>
> wrote:<br><br>
<dd>I don't mean to be pedantic about this, but are the SOs and ACs also
going to be constituted as UAs???<br><br>
<dd>Otherwise, I see an issue -- surely to form the EC as a UA, the
members of the UA need to be persons (whether natural or legal matters
not).<br><br>
<dd>So it seems to me that all the SOs and ACs need to have legal
personality.<br><br>
<dd>Or will the members of the EC just be the Chairs of the SOs and ACs
in a personal capacity??<br><br>
<br><br>
<br>
<dd>On 27/01/16 18:11, Gregory, Holly wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">
<dd>We agree that the language that ALAC points to (reproduced
directly<br>
<dd>below) could be clarified:<br><br>
<dd>“ 3. On page 14, item 2 of the draft proposal (and on page 5 of
Annex<br>
<dd>1), it says "The members of the unincorporated association would
be<br>
<dd>representatives of ICANN's Supporting Organizations and Advisory<br>
<dd>Committees that wish to participate." We have never discussed
how<br>
<dd>such members are identified. Presumably we should to specify
that<br>
<dd>each participating AC/SO must identify who it's representative will
be.”<br><br>
<dd>The notion is that some persons are needed to ensure that the
decisions<br>
<dd>of the Empowered Community are implemented. While the
participating SOs<br>
<dd>and ACs will be members of the unincorporated association,
each<br>
<dd>participating SO and AC should have a representative , and
for<br>
<dd>simplicity we recommend that in each instance it be the chair of the
AC<br>
<dd>or SO. We have addressed this notion in our memo about
implementation<br>
<dd>of the unincorporated association, which we circulated a link to
last<br>
<dd>week in our high level comments regarding the IRP.<br><br>
<dd>HOLLY J. GREGORY<br>
<dd>Partner and Co-Chair<br>
<dd>Global Corporate Governance & Executive Compensation
Practice<br><br>
<dd>*Sidley Austin LLP**<br>
<dd>*<a href="tel:%2B1%20212%20839%205853">+1 212 839 5853</a><br>
<dd><a href="mailto:holly.gregory@sidley.com">holly.gregory@sidley.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:holly.gregory@sidley.com" eudora="autourl">mailto:holly.gregory@sidley.com</a>><br><br>
<dd>
*From:*<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">
accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
<dd>[<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">
mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] *On Behalf
Of<br>
<dd>*Seun Ojedeji<br>
<dd>*Sent:* Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:47 AM<br>
<dd>*To:* Kavouss Arasteh<br>
<dd>*Cc:*
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">
accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<dd>*Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Open ALAC Issues<br><br>
<dd>Well even if we don't need it now. It will be good to recognise
that<br>
<dd>it's yet to be discussed. However considering that the UA is
required<br>
<dd>once board approves the proposal then it may be good to determine
and<br>
<dd>conclude on this soon enough.<br><br>
<dd>That said, it may be good to be sure that those member
representatives<br>
<dd>have no power to act unilaterally. I would have thought using 1 stone
to<br>
<dd>kill to birds will be good i.e making the various chairs/leaders
of<br>
<dd>SO/AC to serve is such capacity. That gives some level of
responsibility<br>
<dd>and security on that various SO/AC can always boot out their
leader<br>
<dd>whenever required.<br><br>
<dd>Regards<br><br>
<dd>On 27 Jan 2016 15:02, "Kavouss Arasteh"
<<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">
kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a><br>
<dd><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" eudora="autourl">
mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br><br>
<dd>Dear All,<br><br>
<dd>I think people contuinue to go to the last milimiter of the road
and<br>
<dd>generate a new discussion and debate about the number of
représentatives<br>
<dd>in Unincorprated associattion représentatives and start a new
round of<br>
<dd>bebates and dispute<br><br>
<dd>Do we need this information now pls ?<br><br>
<dd>Kavouss<br><br>
<dd>2016-01-27 6:14 GMT+01:00 Alan Greenberg
<<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>
<br>
<dd><<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" eudora="autourl">
mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>>>:<br><br>
<dd>As per my comment in the CCWG meeting earlier today, here is a list
of<br>
<dd>the issues still to be resolved from the ALAC statement on the 3rd
Draft<br>
<dd>Proposal.<br><br>
<br>
<dd>There are three issues currently under discussion.<br><br>
<dd>1. ICANN Mission and ensuring that contract provisions will not
be<br>
<dd>invalidated or be unenforceable.<br><br>
<dd>2. The issue regarding market mechanisms.<br><br>
<dd>3. Human Rights (original issue resolved but pending final
wording).<br><br>
<br>
<dd>Issues to be addressed.<br><br>
<br>
<dd>1. The first is a relatively trivial one and easily addressed. Rec#
4,<br>
<dd>in the section on replacing the Interim Board states:<br><br>
<dd>"SOs, ACs, and the Nominating Committee will develop
replacement<br>
<dd>processes that ensure the Interim Board will not be in place for
more<br>
<dd>than 120 days."<br><br>
<dd>The ALAC request that this be changed to:<br><br>
<dd>"SOs, ACs, and the Nominating Committee will develop processes
designed<br>
<dd>to replace Interim Board members within 120 days."<br><br>
<dd>By removing the word "ensure", this change, while not
altering the<br>
<dd>intent, goes along with the recent practice of not putting hard<br>
<dd>deadlines in the Bylaws, deadlines that for one reason or another
may<br>
<dd>not be met in a particular instance.<br><br>
<br>
<dd>2. Rec# 10, AoC. The Recommendation suggests that as part of<br>
<dd>organizational reviews, the AC/SO's accountability be included in
the<br>
<dd>review. The ALAC suggests that this be enshrined in Article IV,
Section<br>
<dd>4.1 of the ICANN Bylaws.<br><br>
<br>
<dd>3. On page 14, item 2 of the draft proposal (and on page 5 of Annex
1),<br>
<dd>it says "The members of the unincorporated association would
be<br>
<dd>representatives of ICANN's Supporting Organizations and Advisory<br>
<dd>Committees that wish to participate." We have never discussed
how such<br>
<dd>members are identified. Presumably we should to specify that
each<br>
<dd>participating AC/SO must identify who it's representative will
be.<br><br>
<br><br>
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<dd><font color="#888888">-- <br>
<dd>Jordan Carter<br><br>
<dd>Chief Executive <br>
<dd>InternetNZ</b><br><br>
<dd><a href="tel:%2B64-4-495-2118">+64-4-495-2118</a> (office) |
<a href="tel:%2B64-21-442-649">+64-21-442-649</a> (mob)<br>
<dd>Email:
<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>
<br>
<dd>Skype: jordancarter<br>
<dd>Web: <a href="http://www.internetnz.nz">www.internetnz.nz</a>
<br><br>
<dd>A better world through a better Internet <br>
</i><br>
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